this is Moyes's first season, so obviously we need to give him time !!!

Say it enough times and it becomes fact... only it isn't, it's complete shit.
Of the six clubs above us, their managers, with the exception of perpetual failure Wenger and Rogers now only in his second season, all of them, Mourinho, Pellegrino, Martinez and Sherwood are in their first season.

Let's look abroad and consider the case of Bayern Munich. Could you honestly see them peddling the same tired, apologetic shit, if Guardiola (a manager with genuine pedigree and vision) had taken them down to seventh... only he hasn't, he's made them even better.

Despite the fact that being a top red these days seems to mean you shouldn't point out the blindingly obvious and you should just bend over and let Froggleson F.C. shaft you, it's good to know that there's still likeminded reds around.

To me, it's starts and ends with Ferguson. Fabulous football coach.. but that's it. Any remaining affection I've held for him since 2005 has long since vanished.

.

I believe it was sparky who said we should melt that statue until he resembles Harri Jaffa.

A very rude statement but could anyone who can master both walking and talking simultaneously disagree?

Originally Posted by Fountz

Say it enough times and it becomes fact... only it isn't, it's complete shit.
Of the six clubs above us, their managers, with the exception of perpetual failure Wenger and Rogers now only in his second season, all of them, Mourinho, Pellegrino, Martinez and Sherwood are in their first season.

Let's look abroad and consider the case of Bayern Munich. Could you honestly see them peddling the same tired, apologetic shit, if Guardiola (a manager with genuine pedigree and vision) had taken them down to seventh... only he hasn't, he's made them even better.

Despite the fact that being a top red these days seems to mean you shouldn't point out the blindingly obvious and you should just bend over and let Froggleson F.C. shaft you, it's good to know that there's still likeminded reds around.

To me, it's starts and ends with Ferguson. Fabulous football coach.. but that's it. Any remaining affection I've held for him since 2005 has long since vanished.

.

I can just imagine that. 'But three of his players are over 30 ffs, he can't possibly do any more'.

For me, there's an implied dig at Fergie by saying Moyes needs more time. They are basically saying we cheated all the league wins. No-one could've won the league with that shit squad but Fergie had such a hold over the fa and officials that we got all the decisions and now that we aren't getting those decisions we are at our true position. It's abus justifying all the years United won stuff.

I posted in another thread that if/when liverpool win the league the pundits etc will say that proves moyes should be given time. They'll totally ignore that United were champions when moyes took over or that his everton team minus their supposed top player are above us and playing far better football despite having a guy who was the most inconsistent coach in the league.

It's £#%&!ing shit.

Originally Posted by armchair

For me, there's an implied dig at Fergie by saying Moyes needs more time. They are basically saying we cheated all the league wins. No-one could've won the league with that shit squad but Fergie had such a hold over the fa and officials that we got all the decisions and now that we aren't getting those decisions we are at our true position. It's abus justifying all the years United won stuff.

I posted in another thread that if/when liverpool win the league the pundits etc will say that proves moyes should be given time. They'll totally ignore that United were champions when moyes took over or that his everton team minus their supposed top player are above us and playing far better football despite having a guy who was the most inconsistent coach in the league.

It's £#%&!ing shit.

This is why I find it so disappointing that United fans are actively joining in with ABU bullshit.

It's almost as if the higher the mountain of evidence against this total £#%&!ing fraud of a manager, the more people leap to his defence.

I'm £#%&!ing sick to death of hearing people roll out this £#%&!ing shite. Been arguing with dick heads on facebook (I know) about it. Some fat %@#$&! came wading in and then revealed he follows Newcastle so it isn't even just the top reds spouting this drivel. They basically see it in the paper/on the TV thhen repeat it as if it's truth. They were the £#%&!ing champions and European Cup semi finalists ffs, how £#%&!ing hard is it to understand

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

You do not keep a club successful by maintaining managers, you do it by maintaining standards. Ruthlessly.

Chelsea have set their standards high and aim to maintain them with no sentiment what-so-ever. Fail to maintain the required standard and you're out on your ear. Result? 11 trophies in 10 years.

Arsenal stick with Wenger year after year after year, result? Not a £#%&!ing single pot in nearly 10 years.

The Alex Ferguson situation was a one-off. It will never be repeated no matter how many "hard working, hard nosed, scots" you stick in the job and hand £100m to.

People will pat you on the head and commend you for your loyalty to the manager when you are no longer a threat to them. When you're not winning anything and everyone is absolutely delighted at seeing the manager keeping your club down in the doldrums.

The Manchester United's manager's job should not be an open-ended deal where whoever it is gets an eternity to decipher if they're the next "20 year manager". What are we trying to prove? Manchester United should not have to change their expectations and standards to suit the manager - it should be the other way around. Why the £#%&! are we allowing a man who hasn't even won a game away at a top 5 club's ground in a decade of trying to come in and dictate to us what the standards of our club should be?

Originally Posted by TravellingRed

I'm £#%&!ing sick to death of hearing people roll out this £#%&!ing shite. Been arguing with dick heads on facebook (I know) about it. Some fat %@#$&! came wading in and then revealed he follows Newcastle so it isn't even just the top reds spouting this drivel. They basically see it in the paper/on the TV thhen repeat it as if it's truth. They were the £#%&!ing champions and European Cup semi finalists ffs, how £#%&!ing hard is it to understand

European cup semi finalists ?

He's getting away with saying that Fergie would've struggled this season with this squad and no-one is stopping him. They just accept what he says.

we dont have time

we have one chance at rebuilding and this season he has proved he hasnt a clue.

dieeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Originally Posted by Zorg

This is why I find it so disappointing that United fans are actively joining in with ABU bullshit.

It's almost as if the higher the mountain of evidence against this total £#%&!ing fraud of a manager, the more people leap to his defence.

We said for years that the biggest obstacle for the vermin was their own sense of injustice but also their fundamentalist defence of every criticism of the club.
They held themselves back.

We have an element who have been itching for tough times and they will do the exact same thing.

Originally Posted by armchair

He's getting away with saying that Fergie would've struggled this season with this squad and no-one is stopping him. They just accept what he says.

They'll accept anything. He responded to one humiliation from city by telling everyone to expect more of the same, and another by saying he aspires to be like city. He claimed the squad could win the title, then a few months and £70 million later claimed they were old and shit.

Yet all he gets is support. They're £#%&!ing idiots.

Originally Posted by Zorg

This is why I find it so disappointing that United fans are actively joining in with ABU bullshit.

It's almost as if the higher the mountain of evidence against this total £#%&!ing fraud of a manager, the more people leap to his defence.

Unfortunately it's become the stock riposte of United fans. The media/non-United fans highlight a weak link and we react by rallying behind them, even when it's only United who are losing out.

Cole, Ferdinand, Carrick, Cleverley, Moyes.. what next, a whistleblower gives a warts and all expose of the truly dire state of our finances, ..instead of us calling for the Glazers to be run out of town, we get behind them... after all, they may be parasitic @#%&!s bleeding the club dry, but they're OUR parasitic @#%&!s.

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

We said for years that the biggest obstacle for the vermin was their own sense of injustice but also their fundamentalist defence of every criticism of the club.
They held themselves back.

We have an element who have been itching for tough times and they will do the exact same thing.

Exactly their inflated egos and self-righteousness are far more important than watching the club systematically humiliated week after week on the pitch.

All these naive idiots who think that a few shit years will "see off all the cockneys and foreigners" whilst completely missing the point that they were all here before we were that successful anyway. This demented idea that if United are wallowing around mid-table then Old Trafford is going to turn into a cauldron of noise and defiance, filled with local lads all ballooning around.

Look at Fellaini. He's had six years with the @#%&! and his £#%&!ing useless chancers. That's what happens when you give Moyes time. Do you want all our players to end up like that?

Please, please make it stop.

Originally Posted by Zorg

This is why I find it so disappointing that United fans are actively joining in with ABU bullshit.

It's almost as if the higher the mountain of evidence against this total £#%&!ing fraud of a manager, the more people leap to his defence.

It's mind boggling to the extreme, to the point where I start to think 'Is it me, am I missing something here' - how can so many people defend a regime that is ruining the very thing they claim to love right before their eyes??

We're as big and famous a Club as it gets, a European and world heavyweight, we're the biggest dog in the whole country, won two thirds of the titles on offer in the past two decades as well as a shit load of other prizes...

...and now we are being dismantled by a management and coaching team who between them have one second division title win with Preston.

But never mind that

Cos every single one of us, will stand by David Moyes

Jesus £#%&!ing wept, honestly ... :shakehead:

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

You do not keep a club successful by maintaining managers, you do it by maintaining standards. Ruthlessly.

Chelsea have set their standards high and aim to maintain them with no sentiment what-so-ever. Fail to maintain the required standard and you're out on your ear. Result? 11 trophies in 10 years.

Arsenal stick with Wenger year after year after year, result? Not a £#%&!ing single pot in nearly 10 years.

The Alex Ferguson situation was a one-off. It will never be repeated no matter how many "hard working, hard nosed, scots" you stick in the job and hand £100m to.

People will pat you on the head and commend you for your loyalty to the manager when you are no longer a threat to them. When you're not winning anything and everyone is absolutely delighted at seeing the manager keeping your club down in the doldrums.

The Manchester United's manager's job should not be an open-ended deal where whoever it is gets an eternity to decipher if they're the next "20 year manager". What are we trying to prove? Manchester United should not have to change their expectations and standards to suit the manager - it should be the other way around. Why the £#%&! are we allowing a man who hasn't even won a game away at a top 5 club's ground in a decade of trying to come in and dictate to us what the standards of our club should be?

Superb post.

Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex

We said for years that the biggest obstacle for the vermin was their own sense of injustice but also their fundamentalist defence of every criticism of the club.
They held themselves back.

We have an element who have been itching for tough times and they will do the exact same thing.

Yep our support is clinging onto false dawns in exactly the same way the scousers have for decades.

Bayern will probably be drunk on tues and only beat us 2-0 or 2-1 and they'll be thinking the second leg is the biggest game in the world and we have a chance. Ably abetted by the pundits on tv "United aren't out of this, they only need to score 3. Nothing has changed" etc.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

You do not keep a club successful by maintaining managers, you do it by maintaining standards. Ruthlessly.

Chelsea have set their standards high and aim to maintain them with no sentiment what-so-ever. Fail to maintain the required standard and you're out on your ear. Result? 11 trophies in 10 years.

Arsenal stick with Wenger year after year after year, result? Not a £#%&!ing single pot in nearly 10 years.

The Alex Ferguson situation was a one-off. It will never be repeated no matter how many "hard working, hard nosed, scots" you stick in the job and hand £100m to.

People will pat you on the head and commend you for your loyalty to the manager when you are no longer a threat to them. When you're not winning anything and everyone is absolutely delighted at seeing the manager keeping your club down in the doldrums.

The Manchester United's manager's job should not be an open-ended deal where whoever it is gets an eternity to decipher if they're the next "20 year manager". What are we trying to prove? Manchester United should not have to change their expectations and standards to suit the manager - it should be the other way around. Why the £#%&! are we allowing a man who hasn't even won a game away at a top 5 club's ground in a decade of trying to come in and dictate to us what the standards of our club should be?

Sparky's been smacking in top-corner screamers on this all season. Great stuff.

I'd be more willing to give him time if he looked like he was trying to get us playing attractive football (of course he does have this plan to put in place "when the time is right" but he just doesn't look capable) look at how BR has got Liverpool playing while we play this horrendous hoof ball.

His timidity and constant negative approach is also frustrating. Especially half the tripe he comes out with in press conferences like the fact we will "try" to win, Liverpool are favourites, we need to aspire to be on City's level to name just a few.

I didn't want him in the first place though main concern was lack of CL experience but also just didn't seem the right one to take over and fill such big shoes.

Yes the players with the exception of Rooney and most of the time De Gea haven't been brilliant but then it is his job to make them respect him/ motivate them.

Also the fact he seems to have started with a different line up each time. Also if he was that concerned about how old everyone was blah blah why did he spend the whole summer faffing before signing Afro for more than he should (shouldn't have signed him at all) he then sticks Mata out of position.

He would also be more entitled to time if he had taken over something like West Brom etc that are struggling but no he took over the champions.

He needs binning. He would do better at a mid table or small club where his approach would suit them. Unfortunately I think the fans at the games will play a big part in if he stays...