10 Hag should be sacked tonight

Originally Posted by Zorg

See? Exactly. Positive thinking.



That's fair enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making the 'give him time because look at Ferguson' argument. That has never made sense to me - Ferguson was a total one-off from a totally different era and the idea managers automatically become brilliant if we just leave them to it for long enough is nonsense.

It's just that, it's not 2013 any more. We've had a decade of chopping and changing when things get tough, and I just wonder if there comes a point when repeatedly changing the manager actually becomes more damaging to a club than sticking with one who's struggling in his second season. Because maybe constantly changing sends all the wrong messages to the playing staff, the fans, and other clubs - it tells the players they are in charge, and all adds to the general sense that the club is a directionless mess.

It's an easy trap for clubs to fall into and I'd really hoped United wouldn't be among them, but here we are. There are so many clubs who've impatiently sacked managers only for their replacements to be worse.

Lots of people seem to agree a manager needs three seasons or so, and then when he struggles in season two they want him sacked.

I certainly see no reason why managers who've failed elsewhere, never won anything, or not managed clubs anywhere near as big as United, would succeed.

To stick with Erik, we need positives. Admittedly, there aren't many - two cup finals and possibly a third, focusing on some seriously good young talent. But I think they're just about enough to stick. For now.

Well said 👍

Originally Posted by Zorg

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making the 'give him time because look at Ferguson' argument. That has never made sense to me - Ferguson was a total one-off from a totally different era and the idea managers automatically become brilliant if we just leave them to it for long enough is nonsense.

It's just that, it's not 2013 any more. We've had a decade of chopping and changing when things get tough, and I just wonder if there comes a point when repeatedly changing the manager actually becomes more damaging to a club than sticking with one who's struggling in his second season. Because maybe constantly changing sends all the wrong messages to the playing staff, the fans, and other clubs - it tells the players they are in charge, and all adds to the general sense that the club is a directionless mess.

It's an easy trap for clubs to fall into and I'd really hoped United wouldn't be among them, but here we are. There are so many clubs who've impatiently sacked managers only for their replacements to be worse.

Lots of people seem to agree a manager needs three seasons or so, and then when he struggles in season two they want him sacked.

I certainly see no reason why managers who've failed elsewhere, never won anything, or not managed clubs anywhere near as big as United, would succeed.

To stick with Erik, we need positives. Admittedly, there aren't many - two cup finals and possibly a third, focusing on some seriously good young talent. But I think they're just about enough to stick. For now.

I'm still with this. Its hard but I'm not convinced these players don't just keep seeing managers off. Takes a long time to change the culture.

I'd rather sack a few of the playing staff before ETH.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

I'd rather sack a few of the playing staff before ETH.

Yeah we’ve tried that with every manager since Ferguson.

the bar is so low it’s unbelievable

we finished bottom of a easy ecl group, was fake happy we slipped the Europa league so we can play once a week and have been even worse since then.

Since wolves (h) on match day 1 we have been far too open and he hasn’t managed to rectify that in 32 games.

We are 2nd best in every game but someone there’s enough to warrant another season.

So literally how bad does it have to get?

We can hope for whatever but i think you'd have to be blind not to see he's a dead man walking at this stage.

He'll be canned regardless of however this season ends and honestly he can have no complaints, he's not given himself a chance.

Originally Posted by marlo

the bar is so low it’s unbelievable

we finished bottom of a easy ecl group, was fake happy we slipped the Europa league so we can play once a week and have been even worse since then.

Since wolves (h) on match day 1 we have been far too open and he hasn’t managed to rectify that in 32 games.

We are 2nd best in every game but someone there’s enough to warrant another season.

So literally how bad does it have to get?

Loads of subjective waffle but no objective reasoning.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

We can hope for whatever but i think you'd have to be blind not to see he's a dead man walking at this stage.

He'll be canned regardless of however this season ends and honestly he can have no complaints, he's not given himself a chance.

That's what I'm reading into all this. My feeling is that INEOS will want a clean slate after this abomination of a season. I don't think they can afford the risk of throwing away another season. At least with a new manager, if things don't go well they can fall back on all that "trust the process" bullshit.

If I thought Erik could turn this all around and that the players would buy into it, I'd be more than happy to have him for a another season. He's a very decent guy. Has the charisma of a spade but it's not a personality contest. But I don't have confidence he could turn it around with basically the same squad, and more importantly I don't think the owners do either.

Originally Posted by NedKelly

Loads of subjective waffle but no objective reasoning.

Think it's best to accept whatever reasons us Erik outers give for him being sacked it will never be good enough so best to accept we see it differently

Originally Posted by croady26

Think it's best to accept whatever reasons us Erik outers give for him being sacked it will never be good enough so best to accept we see it differently

I do get where you’re coming from but at the same time, it seems only fair that the people that want him out are able to give some clear reasoning for wanting him out. It’s also a bit disrespectful to Erik not to.

Originally Posted by croady26

Think it's best to accept whatever reasons us Erik outers give for him being sacked it will never be good enough so best to accept we see it differently

No, that's not how things work son.....

Do better.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

I do get where you’re coming from but at the same time, it seems only fair that the people that want him out are able to give some clear reasoning for wanting him out. It’s also a bit disrespectful to Erik not to.

I’m struggling with people not accepting the rational of ‘because we’re £#%&!ing shit’

Still no answers as to where he's improved us. There's literally nothing tactically that we can say "Yeah, we're much better in that department".

Are we better at:

Defending

Keeping the ball

Passing the ball

Controlling a game

Having a structure or recognisable style of play?

I can't name a single thing we're noticeably better at than when Ole was here. Anyone?

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Still no answers as to where he's improved us. There's literally nothing tactically that we can say "Yeah, we're much better in that department".

Are we better at:

Defending

Keeping the ball

Passing the ball

Controlling a game

Having a structure or recognisable style of play?

I can't name a single thing we're noticeably better at than when Ole was here. Anyone?

Getting to finals,

Winning silverware....

Hth.

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Getting to finals,

Winning silverware....

Hth.

As you know, I’ve made a public statement about deferring the decision on Erik’s future onto Ineos (I do hope they are not overwhelmed with me doing that) so I’ve got no particular side to take in the squabble.

Your answer isn’t really an answer is it? Similarly, you’re failing to give any coherent reasoning as to why we’ve been so poor and why Erik’s tactics are so unusual. I think it’s only fair that you set out your case more clearly.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Still no answers as to where he's improved us. There's literally nothing tactically that we can say "Yeah, we're much better in that department".

Are we better at:

Defending

Keeping the ball

Passing the ball

Controlling a game

Having a structure or recognisable style of play?

I can't name a single thing we're noticeably better at than when Ole was here. Anyone?

I was going to respond with "getting to finals" but Bunk beat me to it

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

As you know, I’ve made a public statement about deferring the decision on Erik’s future onto Ineos (I do hope they are not overwhelmed with me doing that) so I’ve got no particular side to take in the squabble.

Your answer isn’t really an answer is it? Similarly, you’re failing to give any coherent reasoning as to why we’ve been so poor and why Erik’s tactics are so unusual. I think it’s only fair that you set out your case more clearly.

I can't name a single thing we're noticeably better at than when Ole was here. Anyone?

I can & did ...

Olé had us 2nd in the league plus europa final and CL quarters no? A de Gea spot kick away from trumping Erik on the pots too.

#bringhimhome

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

I can & did ...

No disrespect but you didn’t. I think that’s obvious.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

No disrespect but you didn’t. I think that’s obvious.

For magic ? It really isn't.....

If it's obvious to you, why is it ignored by most ? Isn't this what we wanted from a manager ?it holds weight for me ...