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View Poll Results: Would you take going down a division if we moved to a 50+1 model?
yes 81 96.43%
no 3 3.57%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 04-05-2021, 01:32 PM
ScarFace
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by est.1878 View Post
See how quickly a 4bn valuation disintigrates if games aren't played /fans don't attend, and sponsor deals are made toxic
Yup. Hopefully carries on.
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 01:32 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suedeshoes View Post
Do you not think so? Ah well.
So explain how it works then. Educate me; because just saying ď50+1Ē and leaving it at that doesnít really explain anything does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by est.1878 View Post
See how quickly a 4bn valuation disintigrates if games aren't played /fans don't attend, and sponsor deals are made toxic
That may be a plan for United and United supporters specifically, but you were talking about legislative manifestos forcing owners into minority ownership. I agree that thereís political capital to be had here, but they have to be very careful about the ramifications for every privately held business in the country if they set this precedent.
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 02:01 PM
jem
 
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Originally Posted by utd99 View Post
Never gonna happen. They would have to enforce it on every single privately owned pro team in the UK, and even if they forced current owners to dilute to a minority stake, how do you value the shares? Who sets the price? Is it a float or are they forced to offer up existing shares? How do you force owners of other clubs who arenít parasitic blood suckers like the Glazers, and havenít violated any laws to sell? It creates a very dangerous precedent. What about other sports or even other industries?

Cited models such as Germany and Barcelona for example were established at valuations at a fraction of Premier League teams. Whoís going to buy 50%+1 of United at a 4 billion pound valuation? Even the valuation itself is so arbitrary that if you look at Deloitte, Forbes and 18 other accounting firms valuations youíd get 20 different numbers. Do fans even have the dough to buy in at these ludicrous levels?

Best we could hope for is a legislation mandated seat on the board and an owners charter about future conduct. How that would work, and how much power the fans voice would have in reality Iíve no f***ing idea.
it would be nice if the game were overseen by a fifa and uefa that were not corrupt, regulated so that decisions were taken for the good of football and fans and if we had a government we could trust. never going to happen, though, so let's all go back to call of duty and p***hub.

obviously, nothing will ever get better with that attitude.

what really matters is how decisions are taken, rather than who owns shares, so there is no need to use a valuation of £4bn - it could just be a golden share. however, that £4bn is based on cash flow projections, so it is underpinned by the goodwill* of fans. but, if the regulations or law stated that football clubs had to be more than 50%-owned by a trust in favour of fans and the local community, it could also state that shares had to be handed over gratis. why not? the alternative would be to ban a club from all sanctioned competition. so... the valuation would be... well, nothing, really. let their lawyers sort that out. how is it different to a manufacturer of toys with lead paint being told that its product no longer meets safety regulations? fans could cripple the club themselves, if they were organised and determined, without even smashing a window.

not only should it apply to every pro team in the uk, but across football. no point in reforming real's historical state-sponsored advantage so they can buy all the best players.

so you can sit on your arse saying nothing will ever get better, but any step in the direction would be an improvement and any articulation of opposition to the glazers is worth making.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
Listen, making rash decisions without thinking through the consequences has never held Britain back before.
I think you want the rawk thread. or rawk.
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 02:23 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
it would be nice if the game were overseen by a fifa and uefa that were not corrupt, regulated so that decisions were taken for the good of football and fans and if we had a government we could trust. never going to happen, though, so let's all go back to call of duty and p***hub.

obviously, nothing will ever get better with that attitude.

what really matters is how decisions are taken, rather than who owns shares, so there is no need to use a valuation of £4bn - it could just be a golden share. however, that £4bn is based on cash flow projections, so it is underpinned by the goodwill* of fans. but, if the regulations or law stated that football clubs had to be more than 50%-owned by a trust in favour of fans and the local community, it could also state that shares had to be handed over gratis. why not? the alternative would be to ban a club from all sanctioned competition. so... the valuation would be... well, nothing, really. let their lawyers sort that out. how is it different to a manufacturer of toys with lead paint being told that its product no longer meets safety regulations? fans could cripple the club themselves, if they were organised and determined, without even smashing a window.

not only should it apply to every pro team in the uk, but across football. no point in reforming real's historical state-sponsored advantage so they can buy all the best players.

so you can sit on your arse saying nothing will ever get better, but any step in the direction would be an improvement and any articulation of opposition to the glazers is worth making.


I think you want the rawk thread. or rawk.
At no point did I suggest things couldnít be better, but when addressing a proposed systemic change, not only to football but to corporate governance in the whole country, donít you think itís appropriate at some point to ask how?

I honestly donít believe that your solution of just giving it away is going to gain much traction in legislative circles mate.
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 02:24 PM
suedeshoes
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
So explain how it works then. Educate me
You're correct. It won't happen.

In terms of educating you. You could Google "what does stating the bleeding obvious mean?".
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 02:27 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suedeshoes
You're correct. It won't happen.

In terms of educating you. You could Google "what does stating the bleeding obvious mean?".
So 50+1 is not an actual discussion topic then? Cheers.
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 02:29 PM
red red robbo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99 View Post
At no point did I suggest things couldnít be better, but when addressing a proposed systemic change, not only to football but to corporate governance in the whole country, donít you think itís appropriate at some point to ask how?

I honestly donít believe that your solution of just giving it away is going to gain much traction in legislative circles mate.
Of course he doesn't. jem just votes for things then hopes that someone sensible will sort them out in a sensible way, despite all the available evidence being to the contrary, then blames everyone else for everything turning to shit
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 02:29 PM
jem
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99 View Post
when addressing a proposed systemic change, not only to football but to corporate governance in the whole country, donít you think itís appropriate at some point to ask how?

I honestly donít believe that your solution of just giving it away is going to gain much traction in legislative circles mate.
leave my personal life out of it.

I've told you how. believe it or don't.
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 08:59 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem View Post
leave my personal life out of it.

I've told you how. believe it or don't.
You said force them to give it away. I assumed you were joking.
 
Unread 04-05-2021, 09:12 PM
Sapien
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red red robbo View Post
Of course he doesn't. jem just votes for things then hopes that someone sensible will sort them out in a sensible way, despite all the available evidence being to the contrary, then blames everyone else for everything turning to shit
'Assume a can opener'
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