Scholes was pathetic tonight..

What's the fuss about Scholes?

It's been part of his game since the very beginning and for every mistake like tonight he's given us - and is still giving us - many many match winning performances.

It beggars belief that anyone would suggest replacing one of Uniteds greatest ever players with some £#%&!ing no-mark plodder.

Originally Posted by Ether

What utter £#%&!ing shit. Coming just 24 hours after you were advocating we sell Rio and replace him with Evans too. Can I have some of what you're smoking please pal?

My advocating selling Rio is a very very different situation.

Rio was very good tonight I thought, as he has consistently been so against all manner of opposition this year.

I just think given our (very) limited pot of cash over the coming seasons and that we have the outstanding defensive prospect in the British Isles waiting in the wings, sacrificing Rio is something which must be considered. Tony Adams was captaining Arsenal at 20/21, Vidic was captaining Red Star at 19, I think Evans is made of serious stuff.

Scholes, on the other hand, is just a guy who's still a very good technical player but whose defensive inadequacies are getting worse and worse.


I've no problem with people disagreeing with me on this one but I'd appreciate a semblance of manners from some.

Originally Posted by tatty

What's the fuss about Scholes?

It's been part of his game since the very beginning and for every mistake like tonight he's given us - and is still giving us - many many match winning performances.

It beggars belief that anyone would suggest replacing one of Uniteds greatest ever players with some £#%&!ing no-mark plodder.

You can accept that in people, stamps, stupid tackles for a red, elbows, but when it's just so pathetic and careless like tonight it's hard to accept. It was ridiculous tonight like he just decided he'd start diving in and hope for the best and he wouldn't get two yellows. He seemed to want a yellow as well to be banned for next week and be able to play the semis and final if we got there. There was just something different about tonight with what he did, really pathetic and careless, to laid back.

Celt. I think you're usually a very good poster but you really need to log out and have a lie down because you're just going to say things about Scholes that you're going to regret for a very long time.

EDIT: What he did was unwise but his and Giggs' Indian summers have been the highlight of the season for me - alongside the Vidic and Rio partnership ,Carrick's contribution,that boy Ronaldo....I digress. Scholes wasn't too laid back . If anythig he was too keyed up and desperate to get us through - the one thing he missed out on was a Champions League final.

Originally Posted by celtbion

I've no problem with people disagreeing with me on this one but I'd appreciate a semblance of manners from some.

Who the £#%&! are you, you sad @#%&!?


Scholes has had a great season and has given us countless great times in the Red shirt. You are seriously expecting to be treated with anything other than utter contempt after saying a no-mark fat fullback should be playing instead of him in central midfield?

Scholes was stupid today, but O'Shea barely has a single attribute better than Scholes. What tough games should O'Shea start ahead of Scholes? Chelsea? Milan away? A CL final? He'd be made to look a complete fool.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

Celbtion, I have backed you, but surely you're taking the piss with that O' Shea post?

Look, there are about 20 centre mids knocking around the Premiership that would have far far better claims to playing in the position for Manchester Utd than John O'Shea.

My problem is that I think if you don't have centre mid right the whole team grinds to a halt.

In possession, what more could you ask for in a centre mid than Paul Scholes. Two footed, great vision, scores the odd goal. For most of our games, he's probably the first name on the team sheet for this reason.

However, when we have to defend, he's a complete disaster. I'm actually amazed anyone is even arguing on this score after tonight. He completely unbalances the side as a consequence, let alone his concession of dangerous free kicks before he finished his appalling night with the sending off.

He's been doing that all year in games of consequence.

I think it's a £#%&!ing disgrace that the alternatives are O'Shea and Fletcher but the former, however average a player he is, can at least do a basic job of defending in the middle of the park and it is better for our overall shape when we've got any sort of pressure on us.

Try and look beyond O'Shea's shitness and see how many would disagree with me saying that a defensive mid worth a damn alongside Carrick tonight would have been preferable.

I must pull you up on one thing: Paul Scholes can't tackle. Paul Scholes can,and does, defend. He is a tireless closer down of space and will track an oppostion runner all over the field. The problems occur when he goes to ground - even then he does actually sometimes win the ball,it has just become a popular point in the media to claim he can't defend and is a liability because one in every five tackles is an absolute stinker.

Originally Posted by Lazarus

I must pull you up on one thing: Paul Scholes can't tackle. Paul Scholes can,and does, defend. He is a tireless closer down of space and will track an oppostion runner all over the field. The problems occur when he goes to ground - even then he does actually sometimes win the ball,it has just become a popular point in the media to claim he can't defend and is a liability because one in every five tackles is an absolute stinker.

Yep yep yep.

Originally Posted by Fatboy Shrek

Who the £#%&! are you, you sad @#%&!?


Scholes has had a great season and has given us countless great times in the Red shirt. You are seriously expecting to be treated with anything other than utter contempt after saying a no-mark fat fullback should be playing instead of him in central midfield?

Scholes was stupid today, but O'Shea barely has a single attribute better than Scholes. What tough games should O'Shea start ahead of Scholes? Chelsea? Milan away? A CL final? He'd be made to look a complete fool.

Scholes was made to look a "complete fool" tonight.

Who the £#%&! are you, his mother?

I don't need you telling me that Paul Scholes has given us "countless great times in the Red shirt", the guy was my favourite player for most of his career, above the likes of Roy Keane.

I'm judging him by his own standards.

Originally Posted by celtbion

I'm judging him by his own standards.

And clearly John O'Shea's?

Originally Posted by Lazarus

I must pull you up on one thing: Paul Scholes can't tackle. Paul Scholes can,and does, defend. He is a tireless closer down of space and will track an oppostion runner all over the field. The problems occur when he goes to ground - even then he does actually sometimes win the ball,it has just become a popular point in the media to claim he can't defend and is a liability because one in every five tackles is an absolute stinker.

Here, you're preaching to the converted on the idea that there's a lot more to defending than throwing yourself into tackles left right and centre. Most centre mids now just jockey players. The problem with Scholes is that even if he is back in position defensively, what good is he there?

As I see it, he'll get the odd decent block in but he's little or no pace, no physical presence and if he does tackle, it's normally followed by a referee's whistle. That's a serious problem when you're trying to work out your shape defensively and it means good teams can pass through us at will, right through the middle of the park.

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

John O Shea can't defend when he is/was/is supposed to be a defender, never mind a midfielder.

Scholes as a flat track bully????

Who will O Shea bully? £#%&! me, that would have to be the flattest £#%&!ing track we're ever likely to see.

Originally Posted by Lazarus

I must pull you up on one thing: Paul Scholes can't tackle. Paul Scholes can,and does, defend. He is a tireless closer down of space and will track an oppostion runner all over the field. The problems occur when he goes to ground - even then he does actually sometimes win the ball,it has just become a popular point in the media to claim he can't defend and is a liability because one in every five tackles is an absolute stinker.

Spot on Mr Laz, anyone who has watched Scholes knows that he can and does tackle effectively but on occasion he'll go a little wild or over the top (nowt malicious like Stevie G though). I haven't got a clue what celtbion is on about tbh, yes Scholes was a #@&%! for getting himself off tonight but the rest of what he's posted make no sense at all and is just reactionary tripe. Infact it's one of the most idiotic and ill-informed opinions I have ever read on the internet and I have been on Bluemoon.

I do sense a little bit of a celtic bias in his postings and wonder if he was ever as vocal in opposition to a certain other midfielder who got himself needlessly sent off on occasion?

as we know. we can see he's lost a bit of pace and a bit of stamina. he's coming towards the end of his career and he puts in the occasional wild tackle. all of this is true, as is the fact that he let everybody down last night.

it's also true that he is in with a shout for player of the year (or was, before last night). he's been one of our best and most consistent players this year. he's played in the centre of a m/f which, with carrick, has the best defensive record in the league. his defensive positioning and awareness is superb, and he is, in large part, the architect of our play.

i don't see the conflict here. great player, great season, crap display last night, let us all down.

why the need to draw general conclusions from one match? celt - i know you've said similar things about scholes in the past, so you're being consistent, but yesterday was not representative in any way. i don't think you can use last night to support any point about scholes. what he did was simply bizarre.

i think we're missing the main problem we had last night, which was that we had most of the right-side missing: no neville, no brown (because in the centre) and no park. the natural way to replace neville is brown, but that was impossible. the natural way to replace scholes is giggs in the centre, ronnie on the left and park on the right, or pie in the centre - but we can't do that either with neville and vidic both out. the injuries at the back are really hurting us in mf too.

how long is park out for? if he's fit then we play giggs in the centre, ronnie on the left and park on the right - he should be able to really piss off mancini with his energy. alternatively (because i think giggs in the centre is an absolute must for the creativity) we should consider evra ahead of gabby on the left.

Originally Posted by celtbion

If we'd managed to sign Hargreaves we'd be in the same position, arguably, would be looking more up to the task against the best sides and Scholes would still have played a valuable part in the right sort of games.

I find having to espouse O'Shea's inclusion ahead of Scholes £#%&!ing nuts as well but he's the lesser of two evils when we're faced with anything related to a decent central midfielder.

Scholes is a flat track bully at this stage of his career.

possibly the biggest loads of %@#$&!s ive ever read

I get it, you all love Scholesey.

That's really nice. I do too.

Scholes is a far far better footballer than O'Shea. is that ok now?

Like anyone was saying any different.

The overall balance and shape of the team is better when Scholes isn't in it, mind. He has to be babysat by Carrick defensively and can't do the job of covering behind Evra/Heinze. This has repercussions for our wingers freedom to push forward. The position Scholes plays is also one that Rooney could do, albeit dropping from further up the park, and we don't see the best of Rooney as a consequence.

Ooh, that's not so agreeable is it?

The experiment of playing a converted striker in midfield became a problem when Keane faded. It's still a problem. I would suggest that Ferguson's rabid pursuit of Hargreaves implies that he might agree. Who did you think he'd be dropping for the likes of a Liverpool away game if we'd got Hargreaves in the January transfer window?

The 6'+ tall Geordie or the 5'8" striker cum centre mid?

Some are getting too hung up on my "espousal" of John O'Shea. I don't rate him any more than anyone else. He's just the only alternative. Try this one on for size, if Phil Neville was still knocking around, would people have been open to the idea of a Carrick and Pip centre mid pairing starting last night?

I was pissed with scholes last night, but how many times did Roy Keane do that? His ludicrous stamp on the Porto keeper? FA Cup Semi final 99 which nearly cost us? But we forgive and forget because the good they do far exceeds their mistakes.

Anyway, Van Der Sar is equally to blame for that shambolic piece of goalkeeping.

O'Shea instead of Scholes? What?

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

O'Shea instead of Scholes? What?

ycmtucu

Originally Posted by Sparky6899

I was pissed with scholes last night, but how many times did Roy Keane do that? His ludicrous stamp on the Porto keeper? FA Cup Semi final 99 which nearly cost us? But we forgive and forget because the good they do far exceeds their mistakes.

Anyway, Van Der Sar is equally to blame for that shambolic piece of goalkeeping.

You can accept that in players, but I fail to accept what Scholes did last night. It was utterly careless in a really pathetic way. Far to laid back diving into tackles when he is experienced enough to know he would get sent off. If he stamped on someone or did a bad tackle you accept that in people's character, but last night was ridiculous.