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Unread 08-06-2008, 07:18 AM
borsuk
 
Default interesting article about united's tactics (interview with rio)

'cept it's all obviously made up cos rio's thick and fergie's tactically inept


Quote:
Versatility is the best tactic, says Ferdinand

Manchester United's captain feels coaching nous gives them the edge. Jamie Jackson reports


Rio Ferdinand believes Sir Alex Ferguson's bold tactics were the difference between success and failure last season. Photograph: Mike Egerton/PA

In key European away games last season, as Manchester United had done the previous year, Sir Alex Ferguson lined his team up 4-3-3. Yet against Chelsea in the Champions League final in Moscow last month, the manager opted for what appeared to be a twist on a more traditional approach.

At times United's formation appeared to be a 4-2-4, with Owen Hargreaves and Wayne Rooney flanking Carlos Tevez and Cristiano Ronaldo. Slaven Bilic told this newspaper last week that he believes formations to be dead, 'with successful teams essentially being about squeezing space and attacking in numbers'. However, Rio Ferdinand, speaking exclusively to Observer Sport in Nigeria, where he is promoting his livethedream foundation, disagrees with the Croatia coach, describing 'formations as important to us' and saying that Ferguson's approach was vital to their victory in the Luzhniki Stadium.

Rather than a 4-2-4 - which might more accurately be viewed as 4-2-4-0 - United's captain that evening describes his team's formation as a 4-4-2 - 'because we played Chelsea earlier in the season with one up front at their place, and it just wasn't us,' he says of the 2-1 defeat at Stamford Bridge that kept the Premier League title race alive.

'That afternoon Chelsea were coming out at the back and getting it to their front man with no pressure on the ball - it was too easy. So we played two up front in the Champions League final so their centre-halves didn't have too much time on the ball to start attacks, and they couldn't play through Claude Makelele as much. That was the thinking behind our formation.

'In the final I think the manager was tactically spot-on playing Owen [Hargreaves] on the right-hand side because he knew he had the legs and the defensive knowledge to get back when we were defending. And he could also get past and around Ashley Cole.'

But what of Bilic's assertion? 'Formations are important to us because we play different in differing games,' says Ferdinand. 'When we play one up front and two wide in Europe especially, we become more of a counter-attacking team. Whereas when we play with a 4-4-2, we still break on the counter attack but we're a lot more open and expressive.

'In Europe last season a lot of the time we played three midfielders and three up top. But it depends - away from home we played that formation with two wide men, and they had to come back and when we got the ball we broke to make it a 4-5-1.'

The thinking behind this, he says, is because it makes United harder to break down. 'We're a bit more compact - there are three midfielders, so it's harder to get through,' he adds of a Premier League and Champions League double that came with a combined total of 26 goals conceded. 'And if teams then need to get wide and cross the ball, we're fairly confident we can deal with that.'

Carlos Alberto Parreira, who was on the coaching staff when Brazil won their third World Cup in 1970 before rising to become head coach of their victorious USA94 side, said five years ago that the formation of the future would be 4-6-0. 'I don't know about that one,' Ferdinand says, with a frown. 'That would never work.'

Yet is this not essentially how Roma lined up against United last season?

No, Ferdinand says. 'They played with one forward - Francesco Totti - and whenever he comes to drop deep, someone's running in the opposite direction. So it's like one up front with two behind. It's never like there's no one up front -there's always someone up there.'

Whether in Europe or in the Premier League, United's lone man tended to be Rooney who, Ferdinand concedes, is not a natural in that position. 'I honestly think that if Louis Saha had been fit all season we probably would've won the league earlier - he's that vital to us, and a player of that type is important to us.

'Wayne did a great job, but his game is more around having that free role to roam rather than having to stay up there, even though he can do it. He scored 15 or 16 goals, and had 15 assists, so he didn't do a bad job.'

So who comes up with the ideas at United's Carrington training ground - Ferguson or his assistant Carlos Queiroz? 'Ultimately it's the manager, but Carlos Queiroz has been a massive success, and has brought new ideas to the table,' Ferdinand says of the Portuguese coach who is thought to have persuaded Ferguson of the need for 4-3-3 in Europe.

Yet Ferdinand is also keen to dispel the idea of too much forward thinking. 'We didn't really work on 4-3-3 in pre-season, because the boss knows he's got the players who can adapt. Cristiano Ronaldo can play anywhere up top and so can Wayne. Ryan Giggs can play in midfield or up front, Paul Scholes off the front or in midfield, and Hargreaves can play full-back, central or right midfield.

'So I don't think the manager's really bothered about formations. He just puts it out there and knows the players can deal with it.'

Which seems to suggest that although Ferdinand might not agree with Parreira just yet, subconsciously, at least, he does concur with Bilic about formations hardly mattering. And, that it is players and their abilities that are vital.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...chesterunited1
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 07:43 AM
Barca '91
 
Default

Ferdinand's a cunt though and feerie out though, that's right isn't it?
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 08:14 AM
borsuk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barca '91
Ferdinand's a cunt though and feerie out though, that's right isn't it?
spot on, that. don't forget about queiroz being a cunt and responsible for boring football, though.
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 08:46 AM
Stickman
 
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Was interesting reading how much he obviously rates saha or his value to our best system.

I do wonder if that's the general feeling within the rest of the squad.
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 08:53 AM
Bunker Buster
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Was interesting reading how much he obviously rates saha or his value to our best system.

I do wonder if that's the general feeling within the rest of the squad.
i know wes Brown quite well.........

He isnt liked....

Put it that way....

they cal him sicknote.............
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 08:53 AM
roon78
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Was interesting reading how much he obviously rates saha or his value to our best system.

I do wonder if that's the general feeling within the rest of the squad.
i would imagine so, he's a quality player when he's fit
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 09:10 AM
shenwen
 
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rio is definitely smarter than the average player, but this stuff is hardly rocket science. when we play one up front with two wide, we rely more on counter attacking? well I never.

and he also says: 'So I don't think the manager's really bothered about formations. He just puts it out there and knows the players can deal with it.'

either it matters or it doesn't. personally, i think too much is made of it.

I know you feel somehow vindicated about fergie's tactical acumen by the CL final borsuk (ignoring the many years of one up front that got us nowhere) and have mentioned it half a dozen times since, but you really are grasping at straws with this one.

Much more interesting in this article were the references to john fashanu. what's going on there then?
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 09:38 AM
borsuk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
rio is definitely smarter than the average player, but this stuff is hardly rocket science. when we play one up front with two wide, we rely more on counter attacking? well I never.

and he also says: 'So I don't think the manager's really bothered about formations. He just puts it out there and knows the players can deal with it.'

either it matters or it doesn't. personally, i think too much is made of it.

I know you feel somehow vindicated about fergie's tactical acumen by the CL final borsuk (ignoring the many years of one up front that got us nowhere) and have mentioned it half a dozen times since, but you really are grasping at straws with this one.

Much more interesting in this article were the references to john fashanu. what's going on there then?
vindicated? not sure what you're on about tbh. i think the last twenty years makes fergie's tactical acumen pretty bleeding obvious whatever the final showed. i actually think our tactics in the final were ok, but we were slow to adapt in the second half. obviously i don't think one up front has ever been a problem; more the personnel we had trying to play it.


actually, the interesting bit of the article, for me, is rio - his public image is so different from reality, i think: fairly smart guy and involved in some good causes. shame every second interview thinks the most interesting thing about him is that he likes hip hop.

the saha thing is interesting as well, confirming that we've been playing for a couple of seasons without a key player, which makes the achievements of the last two years all the more impressive. that would also suggest that getting a striker in really is a priority, though who would bring the same blend of pace and power as saha...
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 09:55 AM
waynes ear's
 
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ferginand out
 
Unread 08-06-2008, 10:08 AM
Toilet sniffer V
 
Default

Go on then, here it comes.

If Fergie's this tactical genius you're making him out to be, how did he get it so wrong just 5 games or so earlier?

Quote:
United's captain that evening describes his team's formation as a 4-4-2 - 'because we played Chelsea earlier in the season with one up front at their place, and it just wasn't us,' he says of the 2-1 defeat at Stamford Bridge that kept the Premier League title race alive.
It could be argued that he chose his formation for the EC final because he got it wrong against Chelsea in the league, trial and error if you like.
What would have happened if Chelsea hadn't been an English side and given us the luxury of playing against them a few weeks earlier? I'm guessing that we would have used the tactics we did at Stamford Bridge and got beat.

We're both selecting parts of that interview that suit our viewpoint. The reality probably lies somewhere inbetween. Fergie's getting better at his tactics, the team is very strong and can make up for some tactical mistakes. We'll never know the truth probably.
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