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Unread 18-05-2017, 02:40 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
I reckon Mata, Mkhi and Lingard may have preferred more organisation playing in the last third than more freedom when they break forward from their full-back positions.

Some players don't mind having some semblance of a plan of attack. Much talk of how erasing the players' memory would be Mourinho's remit, but the more time he's had with them the more clueless they've looked going forward

Can't help but wonder how Rashford and Martial would have got on this season with some help playing the straighkacket style of last spring
overall i think we both agree that the forward line issues have run exactly as we thought they would once zlatan was signed. i think rashford has pretty much proved that lately.

also only fair to say that he has come on well and clearly has in no way been held back by mourinho in terms of his development. just wish we'd seen a bit more variation and flexibility in team selection at 9.
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 02:42 PM
Whip Hubley
 
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Originally Posted by Sapien
Siders going in HARD on Mourinho today.
Fascinating stuff and not entirely predictable tbf to the lad.
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 02:53 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
overall i think we both agree that the forward line issues have run exactly as we thought they would once zlatan was signed. i think rashford has pretty much proved that lately.

also only fair to say that he has come on well and clearly has in no way been held back by mourinho in terms of his development. just wish we'd seen a bit more variation and flexibility in team selection at 9.
I felt at the end of last season he was good enough and ready enough to be a star this season. He's had a good month but based on the way the season has gone it probably would have been better to have given him the responsibility of top man. Would have been a risk, but the short term stop gap Zlat signing hasn't paid off, as well as he's done individually.
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 02:55 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
I felt at the end of last season he was good enough and ready enough to be a star this season. He's had a good month but based on the way the season has gone it probably would have been better to have given him the responsibility of top man. Would have been a risk, but the short term stop gap Zlat signing hasn't paid off, as well as he's done individually.
i disagree that it hasn't paid off. it's been a great signing in a number of ways, particularly shielding rashford and especially in phasing rooney out pretty seamlessly.
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 02:57 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
i disagree that it hasn't paid off. it's been a great signing in a number of ways, particularly shielding rashford and especially in phasing rooney out pretty seamlessly.
My point is I'm not sure Rashford needed it. Not revisionism either, as I could understand the Zlat signing but I felt after one of Rashford's performances towards the end of last season that he's ready. He needed some help. Mane would have possibly been an ideal addition, but I think Rashford is good enough already.
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 03:14 PM
saffers
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
My point is I'm not sure Rashford needed it. Not revisionism either, as I could understand the Zlat signing but I felt after one of Rashford's performances towards the end of last season that he's ready. He needed some help. Mane would have possibly been an ideal addition, but I think Rashford is good enough already.
Rashers himself saying he and others have benefited and will continue to benefit greatly from the year with Ibra

Exclusive Marcus Rashford interview: 'I will be a better Manchester United player for years thanks to Zlatan Ibrahimovic'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...-years-thanks/

Rashy fancying next season he will explode:

Rashford went more than six months without scoring in the league before a goal at Sunderland prompted a run of three in his past five matches but he felt he was developing all the time.

“His(Mourinho) influence on the younger players, especially, is fantastic,” Rashford said. “We want that to continue because he is making us into better players. Now, when I go to the left or right, I see it differently to how I pictured it last season. They are things I didn’t have naturally inside me. I didn’t feel uncomfortable in the wide role, but when something is different it takes a while to get used to it. For me the development has been going great all the way through. Next season I think I will have come across most situations that are going to occur.”
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 03:32 PM
Baron
 
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Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
There's also a difference between trying to dominate games and ceding the initiative to the opposition. As the season has gone on we have become more of a Mourinho side, and the supposed peppering of opposition goals has been less frequent as the previously natural inclination to dominate has been ebbed away.

True enough, we've regressed as we've gone ultimately. Some of that is squad size & squad rotation. He's fucked that up royally NQAT, more so the use of certain players who could have done a job such as Basti & Schneiders. Mincey as he was. Also, other teams are allowed to adapt to our tactical approach, we've not even shaken of the horrors of the last few years, let alone found our own style just yet.

However, he's had to be a militant bastard to get his culture & expectations down - maybe it is a short term pain for long term gain approach. He's not really had to deal with that mentality before.... planning for a long future. Who knows.


Last season a popular take was that other teams allowed us to dominate games and control most areas of the field. We are increasingly seeing how much it has to do with approach as we are more inclined to cede much of the play. It's been going on since before Southampton largely hammered us in the cup final. Even West Ham with ten men had more of the game in December.

We were 100% allowed to dominate as we proved to be so utterly susceptible to being caught on the break. Also, a draw vs United was still seen as a decent result for 90% of the league.

The teams that gave us space found we weren't quite full blown AIDS, but certainly it gave the vast majority enough of a blueprint to know how to get something out of us.


The transition from being a proactive side to a reactive one is almost complete, which is a huge change in approach, but aside from hearing people who complained endlessly about style last season now ignore the issue, the bigger concern is that it doesn't appear to be effective for us. Chelsea at OT worked out, but our performances in recent months as we have become more defensive have been really poor.

The transition is one that Mourinho used to score over 100 goals at Madrid & win trebles at Porto & Inter... we can talk styles - I know what I prefer, but the principle is he wants to conceede the least & score the most - see Chelsea 2005 etc. We have been shit though, and I am in agreement that really the only way he can cope is to wait for a transfer window & buy his way out of it.

Mourinho has inevitably seized on the chance to complain about a few injuries and fixtures as an excuse to go full Mou, but the Chelsea game aside he's been unable to use that pragmatism on the field to great effect. We are very fortunate to be in the final later this month, and he did us no favours in getting us there with the tactics last week.

Feels like a lot has gone wrong in his decision making, but as I noted - it's a long season & I think he has far more to contend with here than at other clubs. Even at Inter, League winners three years on the spin he only get it together 18 months in. Processes take time - he warrants another season & the time to spend / coach / develop (stop laughing) etc

One thing seems certain: the approach is unsustainable at this club without results. Although given the way he's serenaded by the fans after they've watched us finish 6th while not bothering to compete in games he's said he doesn't want to play, maybe he will ride the popularity wave for a while.

Results are everything to him. History is written by the victors etc. 2 pots & CL football & then go wank £400m in the summer... this will all be a bad dream. Until the 3rd season & his melt-down.

Bring it, bitches.
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 03:37 PM
dragflick
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 04:17 PM
utd99
 
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You listen to these big overarching critiques, contrasting managerial philosophies, tactics and approaches, then you see Fellaini kick the ball out of play from ten yards.
 
Unread 18-05-2017, 04:48 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron
You can only be "allowed" to dominate if you want to dominate.

For example our possession at Anfield this season was much lower (12%) than last season. That's not because Klopp decided last year to let us have the ball. We tried to kill the game there this season as early as we could. This United side doesn't look to dominate the game the way we had previously. There was some risidual inclination to do so, but during the second half of the season the transition into sitting even deeper and waiting to spring the break is more evident.

33% possession at home to Celta isn't because they decided not to let us have it. It was because we didn't want it.

Mourinho's Real Madrid were a counter attacking side too btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saffers
Rashers himself saying he and others have benefited and will continue to benefit greatly from the year with Ibra

Exclusive Marcus Rashford interview: 'I will be a better Manchester United player for years thanks to Zlatan Ibrahimovic'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...-years-thanks/

Rashy fancying next season he will explode:

Rashford went more than six months without scoring in the league before a goal at Sunderland prompted a run of three in his past five matches but he felt he was developing all the time.

“His(Mourinho) influence on the younger players, especially, is fantastic,” Rashford said. “We want that to continue because he is making us into better players. Now, when I go to the left or right, I see it differently to how I pictured it last season. They are things I didn’t have naturally inside me. I didn’t feel uncomfortable in the wide role, but when something is different it takes a while to get used to it. For me the development has been going great all the way through. Next season I think I will have come across most situations that are going to occur.”
He's benefitted greatly from Zlatan getting injured.

When he was fit Rashford ran the line and didn't score for six months.
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