well, we deserved that

in fact, i think we were lucky not to get spanked. very £#%&!ing very poor display all around. i'd be very surprised if we see all three of berbatov, tevez and rooney on the pitch together for a long time.

i can't remember the last time i saw united unable to cope with pressing to that extent - a real lack of composure in m/f and a lack of options for the player in possession meant that we were constantly giving the ball away or passing it back to vds to hoof it up. carrick was clearly not ready and scholes was appalling. very disappointing.

i'm not that worried about the attack - that will come, i am sure. most of our problems came today from an absolutely shambolic performance in m/f, which gave little support to the front pair and was ineffective in tracking liverpool's runners. i thought we were especially poor down the left. evra had a shocker by his standards and was given almost no protection by anderson. anderson has tons of ability but his tactical awareness leaves a lot to be desired and it's worryingly easy for opposing teams to exploit him, as zenit did the other week and the £#%&!ing scousers have now. he needs to develop a lot before he can be considered a first team regular in a midfield three imo.

and that £#%&!ing card for vidic for a pointless foul. £#%&!ing tit. that last thing we needed.

Scholes looks his age against that type of tempo. Brilliant when we have control of the midfield but a pure luxury in that type of game.

I was surprised at the team selection, seemed as if Fergie was taking them lightly, thought Fletcher was bound to start to give some protection to Scholes and Carrick with his injury.

Saying that it took mistakes from our 2 most experienced players to give them the win. Liverpool are still chronically lacking in imagination and creativity, shudder to think what Arsenal or Chelsea would have accomplished with the space gifted to Liverpool today.

certainly got it wrong. but he can't have expected them to £#%&! up so badly.

I'd like five minutes in room alone with howard webb too.

liverpool were still lucky to get a goal.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Scholes looks his age against that type of tempo. Brilliant when we have control of the midfield but a pure luxury in that type of game.

Game passed him by didn't it. We were poor in midfield and probably could have benefited from Fletecher's grafting.

I agree with Jem, the dippers were lucky to get a goal. For all the possession, they didn't look like scoring, but managed to scum two.

We didn't look arsed - that is what is getting to me. Everyone was strolling about (apart from Rio). There was even no urgency from the bench - did either Fergie, Phelan or Rene get of their arse today???

We got outplayed by Liverpool ffs and we gave them both their goals. I can't believe Fergie did not try to change it - Rooney had his best game of the season on Wednesday playing down the centre, so Fergie sticks him on the wing - all £#%&!ing game!!!

Originally Posted by Gruber

Game passed him by didn't it. We were poor in midfield and probably could have benefited from Fletecher's grafting.

I agree with Jem, the dippers were lucky to get a goal. For all the possession, they didn't look like scoring, but managed to scum two.

Have to achieve at least parity in midfield in these type of game. With Scholes in a 2 it is difficult, leads to wide players dropping deep, isolating the forwards, lessening the passing options, meaning he is unable to do what he is so good at.

Almost as if Fergie was so excited with the prospect of the team he named he ignored the tactical realities.

That type of team is for home matches against the likes of Stoke, Bolton, teams when you know you will have a large majority of the ball.

2/3 with an option on the bench.

I said to my old man about 5 minutes after we scored (and we started giving it away) "We've scored to early it could cost us".

We just went into automatic. Strolling about as if we was gonna walk it.

Worrying. Scholes was terrible might be eased out this season. Like Giggs last season.

I still think we'll win the league, by some points to.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i can't remember the last time i saw united unable to cope with pressing to that extent - a real lack of composure in m/f and a lack of options for the player in possession meant that we were constantly giving the ball away or passing it back to vds to hoof it up. carrick was clearly not ready and scholes was appalling. very disappointing.

Agree completely with that. The midfield was a joke. But credit to the murderers, they had two of their best players missing and did very well.

I don't think the front three put together more then one passing move the whole of the second half. In the first twenty minutes, it looked like we could rip them apart at will.

May have been different had VDS not £#%&!ed up for their first, but after it went to 1-1 there only looked like one side winning it and it certainly wasn't us

Don't think either side has come back from loosing the first goal to win this tie since the Cup game at OT in 1999 btw. To go up so quickly and then throw it away was very disappointing. I'm gutted, feel totally sick atm

Hopefully that's the last we see of the "stick all the big names in and cross your fingers" plan. The way we were set up just seemed to be completely incoherent, particularly for a match of this type. Although in fairness, I actually thought we started very brightly, looking like we could grab another goal or two with some great movement and very slick football.

However, as soon as their goal went in they really seemed to up the intensity and aggression of both their pressing and their tackling, and we couldn't cope with it at all (Carrick's injury didn't help here either). So the minute the ball got into the feet of our midfielders they were there snapping away, and in the end we just started bypassing our CMs completely, resorting instead to hopeful punts from the back for Berbatov to contest. Extremely poor.

The substitutions really didn't make much sense at all either. Bringing Giggs on for Carrick when we were still level and looking fairly comfortable? When Anderson and Scholes have shown repeatedly that they don't work as a pair? And then taking Anderson off, just when were imposing ourselves on the game a little bit again, and replacing him with Nani? Bizarre decisions. They just seemed to be repeated invitations to let them dominate the midfield.

However, for all their territorial dominance, they still shouldn't have scored those goals. For players as experienced as VdS and Giggs to make fundamental mistakes like that is very disappointing.

Basically you'd have to say it was a disaster in every respect - perhaps the worst we've played since the San Siro? And at least then we had the excuse of the huge problems with our defence!

Originally Posted by jem

I'd like five minutes in room alone with howard webb too.

He's not even that fit.

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

Hopefully that's the last we see of the "stick all the big names in and cross your fingers" plan. The way we were set up just seemed to be completely incoherent, particularly for a match of this type. Although in fairness, I actually thought we started very brightly, looking like we could grab another goal or two with some great movement and very slick football.

However, as soon as their goal went in they really seemed to up the intensity and aggression of both their pressing and their tackling, and we couldn't cope with it at all (Carrick's injury didn't help here either). So the minute the ball got into the feet of our midfielders they were there snapping away, and in the end we just started bypassing our CMs completely, resorting instead to hopeful punts from the back for Berbatov to contest. Extremely poor.

The substitutions really didn't make much sense at all either. Bringing Giggs on for Carrick when we were still level and looking fairly comfortable? When Anderson and Scholes have shown repeatedly that they don't work as a pair? And then taking Anderson off, just when were imposing ourselves on the game a little bit again, and replacing him with Nani? Bizarre decisions. They just seemed to be repeated invitations to let them dominate the midfield.

However, for all their territorial dominance, they still shouldn't have scored those goals. For players as experienced as VdS and Giggs to make fundamental mistakes like that is very disappointing.

Basically you'd have to say it was a disaster in every respect - perhaps the worst we've played since the San Siro? And at least then we had the excuse of the huge problems with our defence!

Sometimes, everything that can go wrong does go wrong. Seemed like that today. The errors for both goals were shocking. I just hope this is a blip rather then a sign of things to come. The substitutions really were very strange.

I don't know about you, but I thought there was far too much space between our midfield and defense at times today. In recent seasons against the @#%&!s, we've been very compact when they've had the ball. But I thought we gave them too much space to run into today.

That second half was as poor a 45 minutes as you may see from United all season. All the signs were there in the first half though - sloppy passes and mistakes were common and we never pushed on after the goal. Our attacking play was piss poor - no creativity and ideas for the most part. I can't recall us creating a single chance in the second half.

Our midfield was run ragged throughout. Is Liverpool away really the best time to gamble with a new system? Looked good after a few minutes, but that soon faded.

Worst of all is that we lost to such a poor Liverpool side. They're £#%&!ing dog shit and were without their two best players. And don't get me started on how they scored their goals. The first was an absolute howler and what was Giggs (and also Vidic) doing for the second?!

I hope Carrick isn't out for much longer. He's a hugely important player with Scholes ageing, Hargo injured most of the time and Anderson showing he's still got a lot to learn.

I almost forgot... why the hell was Rooney constantly volleying the ball 70 yards up the pitch to no one?!

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

Hopefully that's the last we see of the "stick all the big names in and cross your fingers" plan. The way we were set up just seemed to be completely incoherent, particularly for a match of this type. Although in fairness, I actually thought we started very brightly, looking like we could grab another goal or two with some great movement and very slick football.

However, as soon as their goal went in they really seemed to up the intensity and aggression of both their pressing and their tackling, and we couldn't cope with it at all (Carrick's injury didn't help here either). So the minute the ball got into the feet of our midfielders they were there snapping away, and in the end we just started bypassing our CMs completely, resorting instead to hopeful punts from the back for Berbatov to contest. Extremely poor.

The substitutions really didn't make much sense at all either. Bringing Giggs on for Carrick when we were still level and looking fairly comfortable? When Anderson and Scholes have shown repeatedly that they don't work as a pair? And then taking Anderson off, just when were imposing ourselves on the game a little bit again, and replacing him with Nani? Bizarre decisions. They just seemed to be repeated invitations to let them dominate the midfield.

However, for all their territorial dominance, they still shouldn't have scored those goals. For players as experienced as VdS and Giggs to make fundamental mistakes like that is very disappointing.

that was the most disappointing aspect of the game for me. we lost all confidence in our passing game that enabled us to look like it was going to be a stroll for the first 20mins.

on the plus side berbie's first touch was immense. but i do worry about his ability to get stuck in when the going gets tough.

anyone think we should have had a pen after two minutes? not that it would've made much difference in the end. under pressure we reverted to hot potato football, not what you'd expect from utd.

Originally Posted by TreeFiddy

That second half was as poor a 45 minutes as you may see from United all season. All the signs were there in the first half though - sloppy passes and mistakes were common and we never pushed on after the goal. Our attacking play was piss poor - no creativity and ideas for the most part. I can't recall us creating a single chance in the second half.

Our midfield was run ragged throughout. Is Liverpool away really the best time to gamble with a new system? Looked good after a few minutes, but that soon faded.

Worst of all is that we lost to such a poor Liverpool side. They're £#%&!ing dog shit and were without their two best players. And don't get me started on how they scored their goals. The first was an absolute howler and what was Giggs (and also Vidic) doing for the second?!

I hope Carrick isn't out for much longer. He's a hugely important player with Scholes ageing, Hargo injured most of the time and Anderson showing he's still got a lot to learn.

I almost forgot... why the hell was Rooney constantly volleying the ball 70 yards up the pitch to no one?!

thought he played quite well first half. i think scholes is the problem. (i'll get shit for saying that. )

nft.

I can handle defeats, bad days at the office etc but a few things stuck in my throat after that today.

Fergie and man management - he gots a lot of credit for this but his handling of Rooney is bordering on mismanagement. After a confidence boosting 90mins against Croatia midweek he returns to OT to find himself shunted out wide (again) despite earlier comments from Fergie that he was perhaps being unfair to the lad. It's not as if we lacked options, three players were on the bench who could have been used in that position to allow Wayne to play where he plays best. If he went up to Fergie after the match told him to £#%&! off and chinned him I wouldn't blame him. In fact I'd applaud it.

Our midfield minus Carrick is a shambles. Not one player can play the 'holding' role to any great standard when he's not there. Mascherano and Alonso (their first choice midfield partnership for me) were excellent. Neither are headless chickens (like Hargreaves), they tactically aware (unlike Anderson) and can both tackle (unlike Scholes).

Substitutions. Getting over run in midfield, your holding player goes off, put an old left winger on. Unbalance an already unbalanced side further and basically concede the game.

Andy Gray kept making reference to Rafa and having the balls to go for a win. Only one manager was trying to scab a draw and it was ours. The three stooges on the bench today would not have looked out of place on a special needs trip. Phelan spent the whole match with his head in his hands. What the £#%&! do you do?

We gifted them two goals. Edwin, to me, looked a little shit scared to deal with balls into the box during the second half of last season and has done since Keane broke his nose. Giggs was a dick for not getting rid of the ball and Vidic really is as dumb as he looks. The second challenge for his red was needless and stupid. He'll now miss the Chelsea game won't he, a game that Drogba will be back for.

I'm not going to criticize Rooney, Tevez or Berbatov too much since I thought the service to them was nothing short of £#%&!. He's a self serving money hungry Madrid wannabe, but the sooner Ronaldo returns the better.

Originally Posted by El Calafate

thought he played quite well first half. i think scholes is the problem. (i'll get shit for saying that. )

nft.

Anderson and Scholes were both poor today. Don't get me wrong though, I love Anderson and he was class last season, but he's not yet ready to run our midfield. He'll be world class in a few years though.

Originally Posted by El Calafate

thought he played quite well first half. i think scholes is the problem. (i'll get shit for saying that. )

nft.

He did ok first half but was awful second half. It wasn't Scholes fault that he went missing and seemed unable to pass the ball to a white shirt when he had it.

However, depending on Carrick's absence, play Hargreaves and Anderson in the middle. Please.

Originally Posted by Camel

that was the most disappointing aspect of the game for me. we lost all confidence in our passing game that enabled us to look like it was going to be a stroll for the first 20mins.

A similar thing happened there last season, no? Albeit it was Rooney (and then Ronaldo) we were pumping the ball up to rather than Berbatov. The difference was that we were more compact, worked harder as a team, didn't make so many glaring mistakes (although Edwin did his best), and were a bit more of a threat on the counter as the game went on. If you're not going to play particularly well in an attacking sense, you at least want to make sure that you're going to be difficult to score against - today we did neither really, at least not past the first 20 something minutes.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

But credit to the murderers, they had two of their best players missing and did very well.

if i was your father i'd wash your £#%&!ing mouth out with soap and water for that

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

A similar thing happened there last season, no? Albeit it was Rooney (and then Ronaldo) we were pumping the ball up to rather than Berbatov. The difference was that we were more compact, worked harder as a team, didn't make so many glaring mistakes (although Edwin did his best), and were a bit more of a threat on the counter as the game went on. If you're not going to play particularly well in an attacking sense, you at least want to make sure that you're going to be difficult to score against - today we did neither really, at least not past the first 20 something minutes.

the occassion certainly seems to get to us at anfailed, at times. but like you say, we tend to press hard and get ourselves back into the game. that never looked like happening today. plus the game turned when masherano got sent off, or was that at ot and i'm blabbering like an idiot due to incandescent rage?

That was at OT.