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Unread 11-12-2018, 10:10 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clownbones
What would be racist to you?
Calling Sol Campbell an “uncle tom @#%&!” comes close.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:14 PM
Clownbones
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Calling Sol Campbell an “uncle tom @#%&!” comes close.
Racism, or any prejudice exists on a spectrum. To Hitler all the way down to ' they are like that with money'.

Proving the 'Hitler' end of the scale isn't particularly difficult. We know how he felt about Jewish people. He wanted us to know. The further down we go, the tougher it gets.

Simply asking 'prove it' for something as nuanced as this does seem disingenuous, particularly when there's an aversion to state what their version of evidence would be and dismissing other people's 'evidence' as %@#$&!s.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:16 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knockers
I must be. You said this earlier about secret racists: Until tbey do something overtly racist there is no problem.

I’d say it is a problem tbh and it’s not crystal clear why you’re fulminating about people finding it all a tad uncool. Overall it’s a good thing if people worry about coming over a bit racist and temper their behaviour accordingly.
Until such point as you can no longer be honest about anything through fear that you might trip a race mine. True equality means that anyone, of any race, should be fair game for criticism. The biggest disservice you can do the cause of racial equality is to take honest dialogue off the table.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:18 PM
Clownbones
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Until such point as you can no longer be honest about anything through fear that you might trip a race mine. True equality means that anyone, of any race, should be fair game for criticism. The biggest disservice you can do the cause of racial equality is to take honest dialogue off the table.
Indeed.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:21 PM
Buck
 
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I have always always found it odd when people compare Lukaku to Drogba. That is not saying people who do are racist of course, but it may well be a case of subconsciously thinking there is a link, when watching them play shows there is no comparison.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:21 PM
My Name is Heath
 
Thumbs down

Oliver Holt on Sky blaming the Brexit inspired anti immigration culture.

Nonsense of course.

Brexit will mean way more non EU types coming in so that proves Brexit isn’t done by racists.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:21 PM
S/Side.Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Until such point as you can no longer be honest about anything through fear that you might trip a race mine. True equality means that anyone, of any race, should be fair game for criticism. The biggest disservice you can do the cause of racial equality is to take honest dialogue off the table.
And you think that's the case here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
I have always always found it odd when people compare Lukaku to Drogba. That is not saying people who do are racist of course, but it may well be a case of subconsciously thinking there is a link, when watching them play shows there is no comparison.
Smalling was the new Ferdinand for a good while
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:24 PM
Cream
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
It was more his point that when the white players are up, they get the hero worship. I think that's undoubtedly a reasonable point.

Rooney's list of mistakes is a lot longer than Cole's. And certainly Sterling's.
And I've already debunked this point.

Sterling and Cole have achieved nothing of note for the national team. Sterling may yet have his redemption moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clownbones
That's fine on an individual, legal level... but that's not what this is. We're not talking about one incident, from an individual, that requires due process and an outcome. We're talking about institutions, made of many individuals, with perhaps 'leanings' or whether you wanna call it.

It's hard to pin down. With either hard evidence or notions of what we sense.
The journalist Anthony Joseph who wrote the 'young city player buys house' story has leanings. Gotcha.

Good job you were so concerned that you put some effort into researching his background.

Gotcha.

Here's the racist @#%&!:


Scottish too.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:24 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clownbones
Racism, or any prejudice exists on a spectrum. To Hitler all the way down to ' they are like that with money'.

Proving the 'Hitler' end of the scale isn't particularly difficult. We know how he felt about Jewish people. He wanted us to know. The further down we go, the tougher it gets.

Simply asking 'prove it' for something as nuanced as this does seem disingenuous, particularly when there's an aversion to state what their version of evidence would be and dismissing other people's 'evidence' as %@#$&!s.
Again, you seem to be edging the conversation towards this notion that gut feelings or personal intuition is enough in an instance where absolute proof is impossible. It’s not mate; categorically. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t want to be hung, drawn and quartered on the basis of someone else’s best guess, would you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
I have always always found it odd when people compare Lukaku to Drogba. That is not saying people who do are racist of course, but it may well be a case of subconsciously thinking there is a link, when watching them play shows there is no comparison.
How many new George Best’s have there been to date?
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:27 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream
And I've already debunked this point.

Sterling and Cole have achieved nothing of note for the national team. Sterling may yet have his redemption moment.
Cole was often England's best player at international tournaments and is the 6th most capped player in the country's history.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:27 PM
Buck
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99

How many new George Best’s have there been to date?
Ryan Giggs and Paddy McCourt?
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:32 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Cole was often England's best player at international tournaments and is the 6th most capped player in the country's history.
And he was despised by all and sundry because he was an absolute @#%&!. I’d say any negative press he received was far more likely down to that than the fact he was mixed race.

And before you ask, yes I have met him personally on a number of occasions. Man is a bell of the highest order.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:32 PM
Cream
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Cole was often England's best player at international tournaments and is the 6th most capped player in the country's history.
Well there's a story the papers can run with!

Embarrassing yourself.

Suck on this context bomb for me will you pal? It's a short but edifying twitter thread:


would luuuurve to hear your considered response.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:41 PM
Clownbones
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Again, you seem to be edging the conversation towards this notion that gut feelings or personal intuition is enough in an instance where absolute proof is impossible. It’s not mate; categorically. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t want to be hung, drawn and quartered on the basis of someone else’s best guess, would you?



How many new George Best’s have there been to date?
No, I wouldn't. But that isn't happening. And nobody is suggesting it should be. And that's an example of something on an individual level, not a macro level.

And I'm not suggesting it's enough. I'm more asking the question. One that you've hinted at there:

In the absence of absolute proof, what else do we have?

If tone or whatever you want to call it isn't enough, what is?

What would constitute evidence outside of an angry man calling Raheem Sterling a 'black @#%&!'?

Surely we're not suggesting that prejudices don't exist in more subtle forms than that? If they do, then how do we find evidence for them?
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:53 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clownbones
Surely we're not suggesting that prejudices don't exist in more subtle forms than that? If they do, then how do we find evidence for them?
Why would you have to “find” evidence? Doesn’t that suggest you’ve made up your mind about the outcome, and are now working backwards towards justifying it? In my experience, most people who try to find ‘evidence’ eventually do, no matter what.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 10:55 PM
Clownbones
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream
The daily mail journalist you so carelessly deride has received actual racial abuse for the story.

But still you attack him.

Have to question how committed you are to this cause...



By looking up a journalist who wrote a racist story and finding he's asian and has a perfectly rational explanation for the tone of his article.

Or you know, just waffle on and on in an ever more desperate attempt not to appear fallible.

At some point you're gonna have to grow out of all this silliness.
How vague for a reply suggesting I'm waffling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Why would you have to “find” evidence? Doesn’t that suggest you’ve made up your mind about the outcome, and are now working backwards towards justifying it? In my experience, most people who try to find ‘evidence’ eventually do, no matter what.
Evidence of them happening. Instances. Examples.

Not the concept itself.

Unless you don't think prejudices exist outside of the outrageously overt. In which case, never mind.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 11:06 PM
Cream
 
Exclamation

But... my asian journo bombshell.

 
Unread 11-12-2018, 11:08 PM
S/Side.Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Scone
Neither has pogba, but the consensus is?

Maybe everyone on here is racist. The tone of some of the posts about poor put upon paul.
There's no consensus on Pogba. Plenty of people appreciate him, especially amongst those under 30 years old.

But again, he hasn't suffered anything like the targeting that Sterling has. I dunno why you're more interesting in dismissing the idea of racism than at least thinking it's good that these @#%&!s who have spent years vilifying him are finally going to back off.

Sterling and Cole have had it worse than anyone. It's hard to argue their offence sheet is as bad as anyone. Maybe just a coincidence.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 11:08 PM
Hands of Scone
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knockers
I must be. You said this earlier about secret racists: Until tbey do something overtly racist there is no problem.

I’d say it is a problem tbh and it’s not crystal clear why you’re fulminating about people finding it all a tad uncool. Overall it’s a good thing if people worry about coming over a bit racist and temper their behaviour accordingly.
Is it? I’d suggets the danger is that people worry about perfectly normal behaviour being deemed racist on zero evidence and having to temper their behaviour and biews so as not to incurr the wrath of ideological idiots. Dont forget I’ve been called a ‘racist @#%&!’ on her numerous times for espousing run of the mill opinions on the merkts of an effective immigration policy.

Unless you believe thought crimes should be punished there is no harm done until someone is on the end of something tangibly racist. There is no difference between someone not doing a racist act because theyre not racist and a racist not doing a racist act but harbouring racist thoughts. The act is the problem.
 
Unread 11-12-2018, 11:11 PM
Hands of Scone
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream
And I've already debunked this point.

Sterling and Cole have achieved nothing of note for the national team. Sterling may yet have his redemption moment.



The journalist Anthony Joseph who wrote the 'young city player buys house' story has leanings. Gotcha.

Good job you were so concerned that you put some effort into researching his background.

Gotcha.

Here's the racist @#%&!:

https://twitter.com/AnthonyRJoseph/s...68934047588354

Scottish too.


£#%&!ing idiots
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