Best player and manager

Originally Posted by Sloppy

Wheres serenity?This is right up his street.

Think he's heading up a battalion of Farc rebels deep in the heart of Venezuela. Hates Chavez more than he loves football and that's a lot.

Wasn't it Cruyff's Barca that got their arses totally handed to them by Milan, though?

And didn't he end up getting the sack??

Not saying he wasn't a very good manager - but by contrast his playing career was almost faultless (on the pitch, anyway )

Which means that Beckenbauer has the edge for me, tbh.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Wasn't it Cruyff's Barca that got their arses totally handed to them by Milan, though?

And didn't he end up getting the sack??

Not saying he wasn't a very good manager - but by contrast his playing career was almost faultless (on the pitch, anyway )

Which means that Beckenbauer has the edge for me, tbh.

No, it's Guardiola. Pretty good player and had to make do with Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi his entire managerial career.

Can Beckenbauer really be regarded as a great manager when he only really had one job and that was in charge of a German side that he'd not long finished playing for? Not sure, myself.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Wasn't it Cruyff's Barca that got their arses totally handed to them by Milan, though?

And didn't he end up getting the sack??

Not saying he wasn't a very good manager - but by contrast his playing career was almost faultless (on the pitch, anyway )

Which means that Beckenbauer has the edge for me, tbh.

You're a £#%&!ing idiot.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Can Beckenbauer really be regarded as a great manager when he only really had one job and that was in charge of a German side that he'd not long finished playing for? Not sure, myself.

I fancy I could manage Germany to a world cup and I don't even speak german

Hendrik Johannes Cruijff

A wonderful man.

Zagallo if you're talking International stage. 2 World Cups as a player & 1 as a manager ffs

Originally Posted by aardvark

I fancy I could manage Germany to a world cup and I don't even speak german

It's quite clear you don't have to be an exceptional manager to win a World Cup. If Zidane hadn't lost his mind, chances are Raymond Domenech would have a World Cup winners medal.

Hard to argue with Cruyff, but Trap and Capello both make strong cases.

Overall, Cruyff.

If you weight the talent of the player in to the overall score he would only have needed to be a moderately successful manager to win this theoretical competition. As he was patently not a moderately successful manager, he was a top drawer manager, you bolt that on to what he was as a player and he wins easily imo.

As far as English contenders go, Brian Clough played 274 senior games and scored 251 times. As a manager, he defined two clubs entire history.

cruyff for sure.. One of the top 5 players of all time.. Always played the game the right way and then as a manager won everything playing the game the right way.. all of Barcelona's success today can be traced back to Cruyff..

Originally Posted by The Watcher

You're a £#%&!ing idiot.

Its about opinions, you know.

Originally Posted by ziggyman17

cruyff for sure.. One of the top 5 players of all time.. Always played the game the right way and then as a manager won everything playing the game the right way.. all of Barcelona's success today can be traced back to Cruyff..

this. Cruyff's influence on Barcelona cannot be over-stated. Both as a player and as a manager. He is the lifeblood of the current FC Barcelona. La Masia is something he has nurtured.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Its about opinions, you know.

And your opinion on this matter is a load of shite tbh.

He had that beating coming to him. Cryuff not ric.

Originally Posted by DuanePipe

Overall, Cruyff.

If you weight the talent of the player in to the overall score he would only have needed to be a moderately successful manager to win this theoretical competition. As he was patently not a moderately successful manager, he was a top drawer manager, you bolt that on to what he was as a player and he wins easily imo.

As far as English contenders go, Brian Clough played 274 senior games and scored 251 times. As a manager, he defined two clubs entire history.

what he did to leeds definitely goes in the plus column as well

Originally Posted by armchair

He had that beating coming to him. Cryuff not ric.

Milan? tbf, he got bitch slapped in the European Cup final by them as a player too

tbf, it should've been United playing them that night. Law and Crerand both had legitimate goals disallowed.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

tbf, it should've been United playing them that night. Law and Crerand both had legitimate goals disallowed

Well, we can agree on that anyway. My old man was at OT that night - still mentions it every so often

Given what we came to know later, there is a pretty fair possibility that the ref that night was bent

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Milan? tbf, he got bitch slapped in the European Cup final by them as a player too

tbf, it should've been United playing them that night. Law and Crerand both had legitimate goals disallowed.

He was very mouthy before it as were a lot of the players. Milan were too old. Didn't play the quality of football that Barca did and so on. I wish they had been as insulting about us instead of calling Carrick a Rolls Royce etc

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Its about opinions, you know.

and arseholes, i know which your post relates to better

as for the original thread q has to be the dutchie, nqat

Originally Posted by armchair

He was very mouthy before it as were a lot of the players. Milan were too old. Didn't play the quality of football that Barca did and so on.

I think he described it as a 'battle for the soul of football' in the build up Had a point tbf. The 1994 final has left an impression that the Milan team of that era was a relentless attacking machine, but that simply wasn't the case. The Sacchi style had all but disappeared by then and they were a far more conservative, typically Italian side. From memory, they the won the Scudetto that season scoring only 36 goals in 34 games :shakehead:

ric - The first leg in Italy was bent as £#%&!.