Panorama Tomorrow

Originally Posted by florentino ariza

i don't believe he was specifically sold to service the debt

he wanted to leave the year before, we kept him and won the league while reaching a 2nd consecutive european cup final

he wanted to go after that and they got a world record fee for him

what has happened to that money aferwards is a different story but ronaldo was not strategically sold in that sense. he wanted out

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Ronaldo wanted to leave, though - he wanted to go the night we won in Moscow ffs!!

Not saying it didn't suit the gimps greatly, but that means it isn't correct to say he was sold simply to pay our debts........

Oh I agree, he wanted to go.It was like we'd staggered over the line to hold onto him for one more season but then the debt payments were just unmanagable and, imo, Ferie was told we were selling.

Originally Posted by believe

i've come to the conclusion you're a bit of an argumentative @#%&!.

What, on a discussion forum? Someone who argues? Whatever next?

Next you'll be admitting that you think you might be a bit of a turbo posting attention seeker.

Originally Posted by dunk

Maybe, but by then they already had a good portion of shares. and were required to put in a bid. If every last fan threw in their season ticket in the face of an imminent takeover in 2005, it could've forced the price down, it wouldn't necessarily have sent the Glazers packing.

Following the struggle to ensure Sky didn't buy is 98/99 surely it was obvious that anyone with enough cash could come along and buy United, whether the fans, or anyone for that matter, liked it or not?

We got 'lucky' on a technicality in 1998 and sat, waiting, like a duck on the pond, for 7 years until someone else had a go and hoped for another technicality to save us.

i still think they would've thought twice about it if there had been a well-supported (in actions) movement against them. this is my biggest bug-bear with fc united in that i think they took away a lot of the people who could've made the difference if they had stayed to fight.

(i'm not wanting to get into another fc debate with that comment, btw, it's just what i think)

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

i still think they would've thought twice about it if there had been a well-supported (in actions) movement against them. this is my biggest bug-bear with fc united in that i think they took away a lot of the people who could've made the difference if they had stayed to fight.
(i'm not wanting to get into another fc debate with that comment, btw, it's just what i think)

They (we) didn't take anyone away. They (we)took them(our)selves away.

I know you're not having a dig but its an important point.

Originally Posted by Alan

What, on a discussion forum? Someone who argues? Whatever next?

Next you'll be admitting that you think you might be a bit of a turbo posting attention seeker.

tbh, you're always a £#%&!ing #@&%!.

Originally Posted by suedeshoes

They (we) didn't take anyone away. They (we)took them(our)selves away.

I know you're not having a dig but its an important point.

nah, it's a fair point, it was badly worded by me. you know what i mean though.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

i still think they would've thought twice about it if there had been a well-supported (in actions) movement against them. this is my biggest bug-bear with fc united in that i think they took away a lot of the people who could've made the difference if they had stayed to fight.

(i'm not wanting to get into another fc debate with that comment, btw, it's just what i think)

The Glazers were in danger of getting lynched at OT and were well aware of the hostility toward them from United fans, and still are, makes not a blind bit of difference to them$

The only ones who could've done anything in 2005 were the major shareholders such as Magnier and McM@&%!, and then it have had to be some sort unified effort between all of them to reject all offers.

Originally Posted by dunk

The Glazers were in danger of getting lynched at OT and were well aware of the hostility toward them from United fans, and still are, makes not a blind bit of difference to them$

The only ones who could've done anything in 2005 were the major shareholders such as Magnier and McM@&%!, and then it have had to be some sort unified effort between all of them to reject all offers.

Dunk's right tbh. There was a lot of money to be made by greedy men and they were never going to let any number of protests stop them.

Having said that, i still feel we could do with smashing some things up.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Dunk's right tbh. There was a lot of money to be made by greedy men and they were never going to let any number of protests stop them.

Having said that, i still feel we could do with smashing some things up.

you're both probably right, but at least we could be sat here in the knowledge that everybody did as much as they could to stop them instead of this weary, shitty situation that we've got at the moment.

£#%&!ing glazer @#%&!s.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

i still think they would've thought twice about it if there had been a well-supported (in actions) movement against them. this is my biggest bug-bear with fc united in that i think they took away a lot of the people who could've made the difference if they had stayed to fight.

(i'm not wanting to get into another fc debate with that comment, btw, it's just what i think)

I know you're not having a go there Jack, but we have discussed this before and last time I asked you, in all honesty, what that 'fight' should have consisted of - what in absolute concrete terms could or should have been done, and you couldn't tell me. I honestly still haven't heard a good suggestion. Leaving FC entirely out of the equation, what should people have done in 2005?

Not sure if this has been already mooted, but after watching it last night it appears some of the Tampa Bay fans are getting pretty pissed off with their lack of success and funds.

Is anyone aware of any contact with fan groups over there with the Tampa Bay supporters to try and take the green and gold over the Atlantic?

It may be a futile attempt, fall on deaf ears, but if there are enough who feel they are being short changed over there and want rid of the Glazer regime it could add strength and weaken the gimps hold on United.

The green and gold may not be transported directly, but some sort of association may work. All depends on the fan mentality over there with American Football.

Originally Posted by Zorg

I know you're not having a go there Jack, but we have discussed this before and last time I asked you, in all honesty, what that 'fight' should have consisted of - what in absolute concrete terms could or should have been done, and you couldn't tell me. I honestly still haven't heard a good suggestion. Leaving FC entirely out of the equation, what should people have done in 2005?

not renewed and not paid united a penny.

look, i don't want this to turn into a pro/anti fc thread, i was just making a point. i think everybody knows where they stand on that issue now and no minds will be changed by arguing for a couple of pages on here.

p.s. i love you

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

not renewed and not paid united a penny.

i'm not arguing, but isn't that what they did though?

just also found something else to do at 3pm on a saturday to keep busy

Originally Posted by hopkins

i'm not arguing, but isn't that what they did though?

just also found something else to do at 3pm on a saturday to keep busy

they did, but i think more protests/direct action would've been more productive than forming fc, imho.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

they did, but i think more protests/direct action would've been more productive than forming fc, imho.

i agree duckers, i expected a bit more, but i think the apathy shown by the masses poured cold water on that idea

Originally Posted by hopkins

i agree duckers, i expected a bit more, but i think the apathy shown by the masses poured cold water on that idea

i wouldn't disagree mate. that's the problem when you've got as many fans as we have, it's a lot harder to organise stuff, or for people to feel involved sufficiently to care enough, than it would be with a club who got 10,000 every week.

it's like dunk said above, though, everything's a lot easier with hindsight

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

not renewed and not paid united a penny.

look, i don't want this to turn into a pro/anti fc thread, i was just making a point. i think everybody knows where they stand on that issue now and no minds will be changed by arguing for a couple of pages on here.

p.s. i love you

No worries, in fact that's why I said 'leaving FC out of the equation'.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

they did, but i think more protests/direct action would've been more productive than forming fc, imho.

This is fair enough, but it's what I'm talking about - what kind of direct action? For what they were worth we tried writing letters, marches, singing songs, flags, burning a really shit effigy of Malcolm (), stink bombs () and flash mobs.

None of the players were arsed, all the former players were too scared to speak out, Fergie didn't give a £#%&! either way, and anything more effective - i.e. violence - would have a) led to people getting criminal records and 2) turned popular opinion against us.

So I honestly can't think of owt else we could have done. As hopkins says we did choose to stop going and not give them a penny, but after that, what else....?

the protests could have been more concerted and/or more often. how many turned up to the biggest protest? 500? 1000? a drop in the ocean as far as our support is concerned. if 5000, for example, would have turned up, on more than one occasion, i think it would have put the fear of god into them.

i think fc split our support right at the time we needed to be most united (pardon the pun). i'm not saying for one moment that that was the intention, i know it wasn't, but i think people like andy walsh, jules spencer etc who were vocal campaigners and had some credibility and platform, could've done more to rouse/lead the supporters instead of planning/setting up fcum relatively early and before any momentum had been built up. if further protest had failed, then fair enough, set up another club if you want. i just don't think anybody (me included) can look at themselves and say they did everything they could to stop the takeover.

hindsight is a wonderful thing and maybe that would've failed, too. but we'll never know now. it's too late, imo. the club is £#%&!ed and will be for a long time, and that's down to the glazers.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

the protests could have been more concerted and/or more often. how many turned up to the biggest protest? 500? 1000? a drop in the ocean as far as our support is concerned. if 5000, for example, would have turned up, on more than one occasion, i think it would have put the fear of god into them.

i think fc split our support right at the time we needed to be most united (pardon the pun). i'm not saying for one moment that that was the intention, i know it wasn't, but i think people like andy walsh, jules spencer etc who were vocal campaigners and had some credibility and platform, could've done more to rouse/lead the supporters instead of planning/setting up fcum relatively early and before any momentum had been built up. if further protest had failed, then fair enough, set up another club if you want. i just don't think anybody (me included) can look at themselves and say they did everything they could to stop the takeover.

hindsight is a wonderful thing and maybe that would've failed, too. but we'll never know now. it's too late, imo. the club is £#%&!ed and will be for a long time, and that's down to the glazers.

Ok fair enough.

Fancy a bum?

Originally Posted by CyrilSkeer

Not sure if this has been already mooted, but after watching it last night it appears some of the Tampa Bay fans are getting pretty pissed off with their lack of success and funds.

Is anyone aware of any contact with fan groups over there with the Tampa Bay supporters to try and take the green and gold over the Atlantic?

It may be a futile attempt, fall on deaf ears, but if there are enough who feel they are being short changed over there and want rid of the Glazer regime it could add strength and weaken the gimps hold on United.

The green and gold may not be transported directly, but some sort of association may work. All depends on the fan mentality over there with American Football.

I'm not sure that they have a fans organisation like MUST/IMUSA etc and the Bucs forums I've been on is like this place in reverse. You'll get one or two who are sympathetic and have the same aims. For everyone of them though you get the top bucs/reds who rather than discuss a common problem would rather crack shit jokes and be more interested in declaring how everyone who is actually getting off their arse is a £#%&!er, every idea is shit, £#%&! off back to England/Tampax, Man U/Bucs are shit and so are your fans etc

Maybe I'm wrong about the fans group but I think at this moment we should focus on getting our fans to start waking up before we approach Buc fans.

Saying that if we could actually get in touch with genuine fans over there who could help it would be a great idea.