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Unread 02-01-2020, 01:30 PM
NedKelly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanMUFC
Doubt it, he’s much more comfortable on the ball. (Haven’t seen this season’s Smalling)
Yeah but what does it actually lead to? I’d rather he worked on not committing the one/two idiotic mistakes he seems to make every game (which tend to come from him holding onto the ball too long or just making a really shit pass leading to unnecessary pressure).

Definitely an improvement on the calamitous Bailly but I’d much rather see Maguire and Smalling partner up. Lindelof isn’t cutting it.

That said, still think midfield is our immediate priority.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 02:09 PM
ryanMUFC
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NedKelly
Yeah but what does it actually lead to? I’d rather he worked on not committing the one/two idiotic mistakes he seems to make every game (which tend to come from him holding onto the ball too long or just making a really shit pass leading to unnecessary pressure).

Definitely an improvement on the calamitous Bailly but I’d much rather see Maguire and Smalling partner up. Lindelof isn’t cutting it.

That said, still think midfield is our immediate priority.
I think it’s unfair to question the effectiveness of him driving the balk forward. It’s something the midfield should be doing as well as the full backs.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 05:31 PM
Tiberian
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanMUFC
I think it’s unfair to question the effectiveness of him driving the balk forward. It’s something the midfield should be doing as well as the full backs.
He doesn't drive it forward that often, he meanders forward taking too many touches before usually playing a simple pass that he could have done 5 secs earlier. Perfectly ok to question his runs forward when teams want him to come out given how bad he is when it breaks down and he has to get back.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 05:37 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberian
He doesn't drive it forward that often, he meanders forward taking too many touches before usually playing a simple pass that he could have done 5 secs earlier. Perfectly ok to question his runs forward when teams want him to come out given how bad he is when it breaks down and he has to get back.
He was doing exactly that last night. Especially second half. Steps into midfield, turns inside and plays exactly the ball he could have played without stepping out.

It's like he was just trying to run the clock down. It pissed me off.

He's a myth.

Looks better than he is. When you examine his game, he doesn't do anything particularly well. Defences as a whole are never better for him being in.

Hull, Leicester, England and us concede(d) a lot of goals with him as their main man.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:02 PM
Lazlo Panaflex
 
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This generation's Gary Breen.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:18 PM
Buck
 
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Rich man's Steve McNulty
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:20 PM
Switching Off
 
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Cant recall him once bringing it out and creating a chance. And hes still not scored from a corner despite the size of his bonce.

I guess this is the lesson in wanting better than we have this month. Maguire was that, but hes £#%&!ing average.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:37 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex
This generation's Gary Breen.
Nah, Gary Breen scored for us once.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:38 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
Nah, Gary Breen scored for us once.
As a Coventry player, wasn't it? Still remember that
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:40 PM
NedKelly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanMUFC
I think it’s unfair to question the effectiveness of him driving the balk forward. It’s something the midfield should be doing as well as the full backs.
Unfair Just because our midfield is horrendous doesn’t mean I can’t criticise other players if they make stupid mistakes that stem from their decision making. As I said (and many others, evidently), he’s not driving the ball forward, he’s carrying it out and then contributing nothing but a backwards/sideways pass.

I even said he’s an improvement on Bailly, but let’s be real, he makes at least one borderline suicidal mistake a game, normally because he’s attempting to “drive the ball forward”.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:43 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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The simple point of the matter is that he was lauded upon arrival for his quality on the ball and we just haven't seen it.

Or his threat from set pieces.

Or him making our defence better.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:46 PM
Bunker Buster
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
The simple point of the matter is that he was lauded upon arrival for his quality on the ball and we just haven't seen it.

Or his threat from set pieces.

Or him making our defence better.
Wasn't lauded by some folk....
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 07:47 PM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
Wasn't lauded by some folk....
Oh I know Bunks. I know.

Seem to remember some getting laughed at for suggesting he wasn't much better of a defender than Smalling.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 08:20 PM
Whiteside onside
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
Oh I know Bunks. I know.

Seem to remember some getting laughed at for suggesting he wasn't much better of a defender than Smalling.
Same here I actually think Smalling is better in the air.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 08:23 PM
Buck
 
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Gareth Southgate is responsible for Maguire > Smalling shouts
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 08:47 PM
History
 
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Hes shite. Let's be honest
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 10:04 PM
Tiberian
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
Oh I know Bunks. I know.

Seem to remember some getting laughed at for suggesting he wasn't much better of a defender than Smalling.
He is not as good a pure defender as Smalling was. Not even that he isn't better, he is simply not as good at defending as Smalling( People are/were not entirely wrong to criticize Smalling, he is limited but there are certain things he does very well) The hope was that the value of his ball-playing ability and leadership would be of such value that his presence would bring much more benefit than defensive ability alone.

So far that has not been the case, maybe with the right players around him he can flourish a little more, but I still have severe doubts about his long term suitability for a team looking to play a more progressive game, he is not going to get any quicker or more agile and his reading of the game is not advanced enough to make up for it.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 10:22 PM
Dr Stranger
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberian
He is not as good a pure defender as Smalling was. Not even that he isn't better, he is simply not as good at defending as Smalling( People are/were not entirely wrong to criticize Smalling, he is limited but there are certain things he does very well) The hope was that the value of his ball-playing ability and leadership would be of such value that his presence would bring much more benefit than defensive ability alone.

So far that has not been the case, maybe with the right players around him he can flourish a little more, but I still have severe doubts about his long term suitability for a team looking to play a more progressive game, he is not going to get any quicker or more agile and his reading of the game is not advanced enough to make up for it.
100% agree mate. Well put, as ever.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 11:03 PM
utd99
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberian
He is not as good a pure defender as Smalling was. Not even that he isn't better, he is simply not as good at defending as Smalling( People are/were not entirely wrong to criticize Smalling, he is limited but there are certain things he does very well) The hope was that the value of his ball-playing ability and leadership would be of such value that his presence would bring much more benefit than defensive ability alone.

So far that has not been the case, maybe with the right players around him he can flourish a little more, but I still have severe doubts about his long term suitability for a team looking to play a more progressive game, he is not going to get any quicker or more agile and his reading of the game is not advanced enough to make up for it.
All of our storied centre backs had weaknesses about their games, but they benefited from having better players around them. Not making excuses for McGuire, but all his flaws are being ruthlessly exposed in a way that people like Vida didn’t have because he actually had a team around him. McGuire doesn’t have a midfield in front of him, or a strong partner, or a left back, or forwards that can deflect from mistakes by scoring enough so that people forget.

Again not excuses, because no one should be immune from criticism, but it’s hard for any player to look good in a poor team, and we were poor against Arsenal.
 
Unread 02-01-2020, 11:05 PM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
All of our storied centre backs had weaknesses about their games, but they benefited from having better players around them. Not making excuses for McGuire, but all his flaws are being ruthlessly exposed in a way that people like Vida didn’t have because he actually had a team around him. McGuire doesn’t have a midfield in front of him, or a strong partner, or a left back, or forwards that can deflect from mistakes by scoring enough so that people forget.

Again not excuses, because no one should be immune from criticism, but it’s hard for any player to look good in a poor team, and we were poor against Arsenal.
That's very true. I doubt anyone here could envisage the colossus Van Dijk would become when he left southampton. But then he wasn't joining a dysfunctional mess of a team.
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