Defiant Jose: Pogba was a GIANT

Originally Posted by Cream

I don't know why you ask for more football threads and then merge them like some angry magpie.

£#%&!ing hell, he's having a go at the magpies now. cream hates nature. we get it.


as for criticism of pogba, we should expect a bit more from the lad. soz. the criticism he gets is nowhere near the knee jerk if smalling gets turned by hazard once in a game. with the ball, we weren't very disciplined. apart from rashers's miss (should really have scored, but then costa should have had a hattrick as well as acting like a complete @#%&!), we gave the ball away by being careless and not committing any numbers to attack. when you are 1-0 down, keeping what you have makes little sense.

I think subbing mkhitaryan was a mistake, because it gave us less of an outlet. we did not need six at the back. but then the team was set out very negatively to start with. even allowing for the players available, that team was just going to invite pressure. given the way chelsea play, I would have thought having someone in midfield to protect the back four/five was more sensible (don't tell me jones is a midfielder). but, once herrera was gone, how could pogba get forward? seriously? the couple of times we did have players push up, we gave away possession and they had men over when they broke.

Originally Posted by jem

£#%&!ing hell, he's having a go at the magpies now. cream hates nature. we get it.


as for criticism of pogba, we should expect a bit more from the lad. soz. the criticism he gets is nowhere near the knee jerk if smalling gets turned by hazard once in a game. with the ball, we weren't very disciplined. apart from rashers's miss (should really have scored, but then costa should have had a hattrick as well as acting like a complete c***), we gave the ball away by being careless and not committing any numbers to attack. when you are 1-0 down, keeping what you have makes little sense.

I think subbing mkhitaryan was a mistake, because it gave us less of an outlet. we did not need six at the back. but then the team was set out very negatively to start with. even allowing for the players available, that team was just going to invite pressure. given the way chelsea play, I would have thought having someone in midfield to protect the back four/five was more sensible (don't tell me jones is a midfielder). but, once herrera was gone, how could pogba get forward? seriously? the couple of times we did have players push up, we gave away possession and they had men over when they broke.

Try and stay on topic in the unmerged thread please...

Originally Posted by Coracao

When you're down to 10 men, you expect your better players to take on a bit more responsibility, especially if they are playing in the middle of the park.

Try and make yourself more available for a pass, help alleviate the pressure on the back four, don't give the ball away cheaply etc.

Sadly, Pogba seemed to go missing last night. A lot to improve on.

exactly.

Originally Posted by jem

£#%&!ing hell, he's having a go at the magpies now. cream hates nature. we get it.


as for criticism of pogba, we should expect a bit more from the lad. soz. the criticism he gets is nowhere near the knee jerk if smalling gets turned by hazard once in a game. with the ball, we weren't very disciplined. apart from rashers's miss (should really have scored, but then costa should have had a hattrick as well as acting like a complete @#%&!), we gave the ball away by being careless and not committing any numbers to attack. when you are 1-0 down, keeping what you have makes little sense.

I think subbing mkhitaryan was a mistake, because it gave us less of an outlet. we did not need six at the back. but then the team was set out very negatively to start with. even allowing for the players available, that team was just going to invite pressure. given the way chelsea play, I would have thought having someone in midfield to protect the back four/five was more sensible (don't tell me jones is a midfielder). but, once herrera was gone, how could pogba get forward? seriously? the couple of times we did have players push up, we gave away possession and they had men over when they broke.

without all of our defenders we could quite easily been on the end of an absolute thrashing.

as it was, we gave ourselves enough of a chance to get a late goal. Unfortunately we couldn't but i dread to think what the score could've been if we hadn't had all of Smalling, Jones and Rojo there.

Originally Posted by believe

So in order for 80 million pound Pogba to step up to the game, we need to spend more money to make things easier for him?

No, I think it's more about recognising his strengths and weaknesses. He's very good when we're controlling a game and going forward, but quite clearly he's not a Keane or even a Carrick who can either get stuck in or read the game defensively. His best position, at least to my eyes, is at the peak of a midfield 3 where he can do the most damage.

The argument that the players around him aren't up to scratch is absolutely a valid one. It doesn't excuse his performance last night of course, this is more an argument about his long term viability.

I'm frustrated as £#%&! by a lot of his performances this season but that hardly means I'm going to write the guy off. Fairly certain if he was in Chelsea's midfield with Kante and Matic behind him week in week out he'd be performing a lot better....

140 (one hundred and four) games since the start of last season ffs

Originally Posted by believe

You'd like to hope so but if you take Keane as an example, he didn't need better players round him, he made the players round him better and you'd expect Pogba was also capable of that. Just seems a bit of a cop out to say he can't make a simple pass because he's playing with Herrera.

Very much so. Agree with all that.

He has shown regular glimpses of his talent for sure but all in all he has been very disappointing so far hasn't he.

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

No, I think it's more about recognising his strengths and weaknesses. He's very good when we're controlling a game and going forward, but quite clearly he's not a Keane or even a Carrick who can either get stuck in or read the game defensively. His best position, at least to my eyes, is at the peak of a midfield 3 where he can do the most damage.

The argument that the players around him aren't up to scratch is absolutely a valid one. It doesn't excuse his performance last night of course, this is more an argument about his long term viability.

I'm frustrated as £#%&! by a lot of his performances this season but that hardly means I'm going to write the guy off. Fairly certain if he was in Chelsea's midfield with Kante and Matic behind him week in week out he'd be performing a lot better....

140 games since the start of last season ffs

104 not 140

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Did playing with fellaini make him juggle the ball TWICE surrounded by players and lose possession ? Fail to close down the goal ?

Go completely missing for 90% of the game...

Some might argue that by refusing to change his game, and the opportunities his juggling skills can bring, Pogba set an example to his teammates.

The definition of not shrinking in the face of adversity?

Originally Posted by jem

£#%&!ing hell, he's having a go at the magpies now. cream hates nature. we get it.


as for criticism of pogba, we should expect a bit more from the lad. soz. the criticism he gets is nowhere near the knee jerk if smalling gets turned by hazard once in a game. with the ball, we weren't very disciplined. apart from rashers's miss (should really have scored, but then costa should have had a hattrick as well as acting like a complete @#%&!), we gave the ball away by being careless and not committing any numbers to attack. when you are 1-0 down, keeping what you have makes little sense.

I think subbing mkhitaryan was a mistake, because it gave us less of an outlet. we did not need six at the back. but then the team was set out very negatively to start with. even allowing for the players available, that team was just going to invite pressure. given the way chelsea play, I would have thought having someone in midfield to protect the back four/five was more sensible (don't tell me jones is a midfielder). but, once herrera was gone, how could pogba get forward? seriously? the couple of times we did have players push up, we gave away possession and they had men over when they broke.

a) I love nature and all animals (not rodents).

b) pls read the following post

Originally Posted by silv

without all of our defenders we could quite easily been on the end of an absolute thrashing.

as it was, we gave ourselves enough of a chance to get a late goal. Unfortunately we couldn't but i dread to think what the score could've been if we hadn't had all of Smalling, Jones and Rojo there.

and given we have a crucial game on Thursday - not a week away - you have to praise Mourinho for making the tough decisions.

I think maybe Rooney and Martial are fine.

Originally Posted by believe

You'd like to hope so but if you take Keane as an example

Keanes first season at united aged 23 54 appearances and 8 goals

Pogbas first season at united aged 23 40 appearances and 7 goals

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Try and stay on topic in the unmerged thread please...

I mentioned pogba in both paras that weren't about cream's plan to exterminate all birds on the planet.

Originally Posted by silv

without all of our defenders we could quite easily been on the end of an absolute thrashing.

as it was, we gave ourselves enough of a chance to get a late goal. Unfortunately we couldn't but i dread to think what the score could've been if we hadn't had all of Smalling, Jones and Rojo there.

I do not feel I can answer this without going off topic, but I fear you do not understand cup football. we lost. we are out. if we had lost 10-0, nothing would be different. sure, you could say we had the best chance of the game (to quote jo-mo), but you know, as we all know, that clinically taking the only chance of the game is as far from our m.o. as it is possible to get. at 1-0, we should have gone for it just a tad more.

Originally Posted by forwardirektion

Keanes first season at united aged 23 54 appearances and 8 goals

Pogbas first season at united aged 23 40 appearances and 7 goals

I think there's more to it than stats ffs

In Keane's first season we won the double ffs; we are currently languishing in 6th ffs

Keane offered slightly more than goals ffs.

They were just a bonus. If he never scored a goal in his entire career he would still be one of the best midfielders ever

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

I think there's more to it than stats ffs

In Keane's first season we won the double ffs; we are currently languishing in 6th ffs

We'd also won the league the season before and he was playing alongside Ince.

Originally Posted by forwardirektion

We'd also won the league the season before and he was playing alongside Ince.

Right yes - so what's the point here?

Originally Posted by Ethers

104 not 140

close enough

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

Right yes - so what's the point here?

He was brought into a successful team to improve it. Pogbas been brought into a squad full of shit at the start of the 3rd rebuild in 4 years

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

Right yes - so what's the point here?

Would never guess this guy was a lawyer.

Be calling for an adjournment next.

Originally Posted by Cream

Would never guess this guy was a lawyer.

Be calling for an adjournment next.

Originally Posted by forwardirektion

He was brought into a successful team to improve it. Pogbas been brought into a squad full of shit at the start of the 3rd rebuild in 4 years

Yeah suppose that's fair; certainly agree with the squad being full of shit aspect.

Originally Posted by atticusgrinch

Reminds me of Irk: is that your fiver down there? Puff of smoke and you're left paying the barman. Remarkable.