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Unread 18-09-2011, 08:19 PM
Big Norm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Baroo
my understanding is that once the ref gives the ball as dead he can't go back and give a pen

the linesman clearly saw the incident however ref had already called the ball dead before talking to him. if this is the case then it was shite refereeing anyway

is this right? doesn't matter if the ball has gone out its based on the ref declaring the ball dead?
As I said, if he books him, it's a foul. If it's a foul inside the box, it's a penalty.

It was a leg-breaker, should have been a red and a pen.
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 08:22 PM
Billy Baroo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Norm
As I said, if he books him, it's a foul. If it's a foul inside the box, it's a penalty.

It was a leg-breaker, should have been a red and a pen.
maybe redhedge has it right
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 08:23 PM
redhegemony
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Baroo
my understanding is that once the ref gives the ball as dead he can't go back and give a pen

the linesman clearly saw the incident however ref had already called the ball dead before talking to him. if this is the case then it was shite refereeing anyway

is this right? doesn't matter if the ball has gone out its based on the ref declaring the ball dead?
Don't think refs call a dead ball but the ball is out of play but must be close
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 08:27 PM
Horst_ Bucholst
 
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should have been a red but the ball had gone out so no pen .

cole should be boiled in a vat piss as punishment vile @#%&! .
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 09:01 PM
Grimson
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bigbollox
So, as an example, keeper tips the ball over the bar for a corner, Rooney deliberately clatters into the goalie after the ball has gone and gets booked. No free kick given and we have a corner I assume?
Yes.
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 09:17 PM
redhegemony
 
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Tackle so close to the ball being played it's part of the action so pen + red.
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 09:21 PM
dunk
 
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It has long baffled me that defenders are allowed to clatter strikers and be as late as they like as long as the striker is having a shot, without punishment. That is probably the worst case I've seen, happens a lot though.
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 09:34 PM
Argentina
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Baroo
my understanding is that once the ref gives the ball as dead he can't go back and give a pen

the linesman clearly saw the incident however ref had already called the ball dead before talking to him. if this is the case then it was shite refereeing anyway

is this right? doesn't matter if the ball has gone out its based on the ref declaring the ball dead?
No.

The law states that if the ball is not in play a foul cannot be given. Therefore any physical challenge is deemed 'violent conduct', but as they are laws they are open to interpretation by the person in charge.

An assessor wouldn't have marked a referee down if they had given a penalty there. After all, what does 'in play' mean. If he is taking that shot from 25 yards and it's clearly going wide, and Cole does the same thing (height, nature and timing) and the ball is still traveling and Cole catches him knee high, it is a free-kick and a red card.

For me, in this instance 'in play' means the ball, or play, coming to some kind of logical stop or conclusion, like Cole's slide coming to end, Hernandez head in hands having missed or ball in the crowd, rather than the ball just past the post.

Anything after that, the ball is dead and a tackle after that is violent conduct and a red card.

The crux is, nowhere does it state that the ball has to be within the lines for it to be 'in-play', so it is entirely up to the referee to decide what in-play means. I think it might have been a case of Dowd not properly seeing it so didn't want to give ANOTHER penalty for something he wasn't entirely sure, same with not giving him a red card.
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 10:18 PM
jem
 
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you can argue whether it was deliberate, but it's not really important. reckless at best. clear red. if the ball was out of play by the time the assault landed, that only shows how £#%&!ing late the challenge was.

and the @#%&! £#%&!ing argued about the yellow as well.
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 10:25 PM
Alex de Large
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by believe
was more a pen than the one we got.
hthelps
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 10:25 PM
Grimson
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentina
No.



The crux is, nowhere does it state that the ball has to be within the lines for it to be 'in-play', so it is entirely up to the referee to decide what in-play means.
Law 9?

Ball Out of Play
The ball is out of play when:
it has wholly crossed the goal line or touch line whether on the
ground or in the air

• play has been stopped by the referee
Ball In Play
The ball is in play at all other times, including when:
• it rebounds off a goalpost, crossbar or corner flagpost and remains
in the fi eld of play
• it rebounds off either the referee or an assistant referee when they
are on the fi eld of play
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 10:31 PM
Argentina
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimson
Law 9?

Ball Out of Play
The ball is out of play when:
it has wholly crossed the goal line or touch line whether on the
ground or in the air

• play has been stopped by the referee
Ball In Play
The ball is in play at all other times, including when:
• it rebounds off a goalpost, crossbar or corner flagpost and remains
in the fi eld of play
• it rebounds off either the referee or an assistant referee when they
are on the fi eld of play
I was looking for that as well!

Still think it's open to interpretation
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 10:34 PM
Grimson
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentina
I was looking for that as well!

Still think it's open to interpretation
I agree actually. The fact that Cole makes contact on Pea fractionally after the ball is out of play kind of ignores the effect his challenge would have on him.
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 10:40 PM
Argentina
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimson
I agree actually. The fact that Cole makes contact on Pea fractionally after the ball is out of play kind of ignores the effect his challenge would have on him.
I honestly just don't think Dowd saw it and used the 'ball out of play' as an excuse not to give a penalty.
 
Unread 18-09-2011, 11:13 PM
Argentina
 
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Just seen the incident where he books Cole and @#%&! head Terry comes over and you can see Dowd mouthing 'ball's out of play'.
 
Unread 19-09-2011, 09:17 AM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex de Large
was more a pen than the one we got.
hthelps
the penalty we were given was a clear penalty (as well as denying an op). bosingwa made contact with nani's foot as he was shooting before he got anywhere near the ball.

with cole, he initiated the reckless challenge when the ball was in play. you can't really divorce the contact from the take-off (there doesn't even need to be contact for a foul). red and penalry if dowd had any balls.
 
Unread 19-09-2011, 09:58 AM
irk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
the penalty we were given was a clear penalty (as well as denying an op). bosingwa made contact with nani's foot as he was shooting before he got anywhere near the ball.

with cole, he initiated the reckless challenge when the ball was in play. you can't really divorce the contact from the take-off (there doesn't even need to be contact for a foul). red and penalry if dowd had any balls.
This
 
Unread 19-09-2011, 10:10 AM
PaulParkers
 
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Withers
Ball out of play, I think.

Although I would argue there is no chance the ball had time to get out of play.
I could be wrong but I'm not sure ball out of play is a reason for it not to be a pen is it? We had a peno given Saturday whilst the ball was out of play cos the keeper decided to boot our centre forward up the arse.

He saw rouge and we missed the pen
 
Unread 19-09-2011, 12:54 PM
MJ Ramone
 
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Just seen the challenge again ...it gets more outrageous the more you see it. Especially as Cole wasn't punished for it.
All I've heard post-match is people talking about the Torres miss ffs

Any news on Pea?
 
Unread 19-09-2011, 01:21 PM
The Return of JC
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Ramone
Just seen the challenge again ...it gets more outrageous the more you see it. Especially as Cole wasn't punished for it.
All I've heard post-match is people talking about the Torres miss ffs

Any news on Pea?
I see your point, but I don't really have a huge problem with this
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