Are we really about to sell the only player capable of bagging 20 and not replace him?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Anyone can get criticised. With Rashford it does get a little skewed though. Like you seeing Lukaku as a goalscorer when they scored a similar amount. Like Utd99 always referring to James as a kid when he's the same age as Rashford. Just a little perspective needed.

For a 21-year-old Rashford is still a promising talent. But yes, he wasn't good today, albeit he still causes problems.

What has me calling Lukaku a goal scorer got to do with criticising Rashford for a poor game today though? It has nothing to do with it unless you have an agenda to push imo.

It gets a bit tiresome pal.

Originally Posted by utd99

Scoring 3 goals in games against Wolves, Palace and Southampton is nowhere near good enough to have us competing for anything meaningful this season. Everyone on this board knows that, and if we don't start asking hard questions about our forward players then where else do we look?

You have to look at the whole team. AWB is flavour of the month and I love his defending one-v-one but did he or Young really offer us much? Did Pogba really come through often enough? Pereira again struggles to get into game, The Scottish Player's passing abysmal and the two centre-halves have inflated reputations as ball-players. You can rely on individuals at times, but we need to work better as a team to break down defensive sides. A lot of that will come on the training pitch too.

Originally Posted by AK14

What has me calling Lukaku a goal scorer got to do with criticising Rashford for a poor game today though? It has nothing to do with it unless you have an agenda to push imo.

It gets a bit tiresome pal.

Originally Posted by AK14

The alternative was signing a replacement...

But if it meant keeping him for another season if we knew we wouldn’t be signing a replacement this summer, then I’d have picked that option over what we’ve done tbh.

Depends what kind of influence he’d have had on the dressing room. He didn’t do us much use at the back end of last season, and the dynamics of the dressing room needed addressing, based on the end to last season.

For me it’s not about any short term results. It’s about where we are in 12-24 months. We’d have been better off replacing him, but selling him and making do with what we have was the next best option in that regard. We are rid of a bad influence, and him still being here doesn’t hold up any deal for a replacement in another transfer window. Plus there’s every chance a young player steps up and we won’t need to buy anyone. It also puts the spotlight on martial and whether he has what it takes to be first choice striker.

Van gaal and mourinho would probably have kept him due to concerns over the short term. I’d rather lay the foundations for a year or two’s time.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

That's why we lost faith in him, the goals dried up. And he has never been that much use apart from goals.

And he just doesn’t suit the way ole wants to play, or the way most united fans want us to play. £#%&! playing to his strengths.

Originally Posted by AK14

I think we’re all missing the extra goals he scores tbh, could have done with one today tbf.

Now he’s left, he’ll have been the answer in every game we drop points.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You have to look at the whole team. AWB is flavour of the month and I love his defending one-v-one but did he or Young really offer us much? Did Pogba really come through often enough? Pereira again struggles to get into game, The Scottish Player's passing abysmal and the two centre-halves have inflated reputations as ball-players. You can rely on individuals at times, but we need to work better as a team to break down defensive sides. A lot of that will come on the training pitch too.

Trust me pal...

The feeling is mutual.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Depends what kind of influence he’d have had on the dressing room. He didn’t do us much use at the back end of last season, and the dynamics of the dressing room needed addressing, based on the end to last season.

For me it’s not about any short term results. It’s about where we are in 12-24 months. We’d have been better off replacing him, but selling him and making do with what we have was the next best option in that regard. We are rid of a bad influence, and him still being here doesn’t hold up any deal for a replacement in another transfer window. Plus there’s every chance a young player steps up and we won’t need to buy anyone. It also puts the spotlight on martial and whether he has what it takes to be first choice striker.

Van gaal and mourinho would probably have kept him due to concerns over the short term. I’d rather lay the foundations for a year or two’s time.



And he just doesn’t suit the way ole wants to play, or the way most united fans want us to play. £#%&! playing to his strengths.



Now he’s left, he’ll have been the answer in every game we drop points.

Nah, the replacement we should have signed when selling him would have been a great option to have when looking for a goal like today

Originally Posted by AK14

Fact is we sold Lukaku and didn’t replace him, that has nothing to do with slating Rashford when he clearly he has a bad game. But siders can’t take people calling Rashford out.

We replaced him with martial and the promotion of greenwood. Though it wouldn’t surprise me if ole would also have wanted to get rid of martial and bring in someone else.

Still, this will be martial’s last season if he doesn’t step up to the opportunity he’s been given. Either way, it’s a step to being the team we want to be in 12-24 months. I’d rather the club think of the next 500 games than just the next 40.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Tbf, the big dopey £#%&!er may have won us the pts today by getting into the 6 yard box and letting something bounce off him.

We knew he was going all summer so the decision to not bring in any form of replacement is £#%&!ed up.

Which means either ole has the replacement he wanted all along, or he decided it was better to still go ahead with the deal despite the club not getting the replacement he wanted. Either way, ole must think It was more important to get rid despite the risk in the short run.

It’s seems pretty obvious there’s limitations on bringing players in until players leave first.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Going into this season with the options with have is laughable. I can't recall Utd having worse options up front.

James and greenwood are an improvement on lukaku and Sanchez. It just comes down to whether martial can step up. We may not be strong in midfield and attack, but we’re no weaker than last season.

Originally Posted by utd99

Ones that make the difference in a tight game like today's preferably.

Did you miss the number of tight games last season where lukaku missed chances? He’s not the answer. He was part of the problem.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Rashford could equal Lukaku's total of last year. Lukaku's goals still won't have been replaced, unless the rest of the forward line / team find another 14.

Barring injury, martial, James and greenwood do that easily.

Ole has said we wanted to replace Lukaku but failed, so I don’t think Martial was his replacement tbh.

Originally Posted by utd99

Scoring 3 goals in games against Wolves, Palace and Southampton is nowhere near good enough to have us competing for anything meaningful this season. Everyone on this board knows that, and if we don't start asking hard questions about our forward players then where else do we look?

Who was expecting to compete for anything meaningful this season? It’s a work in progress.

Originally Posted by Ethers

My worry is that I don’t see where the goals will come from other than the forwards. The position Pogba is playing he looks a lot less likely to hit double figures this year, and whoever plays next to him is unlikely to be troubling the goal much. Then behind the forwards you’ve got either Lingard, who looks to have completely lost the knack of getting the ball anywhere near the goal, and Mata who has never been close to prolific.

It’s why I was a bit surprised we didn’t go through with the Fernandes move, as he looks like a player who could guarantee you a healthy return from that position.

The wild card of course is sticking one of the youngsters in there and seeing what they do.

I think Pogba will end up playing a number of games at number 10 in place of mata and lingard. Assuming matic can perform still.

We were interested in that Haller that West Ham bought, but 'didn't think we could get a deal done'.. West Ham just wandered in and whacked the wedge down however..

Not sure what other strikers were knocking about tbh.

Originally Posted by dunk

We were interested in that Haller that West Ham bought, but 'didn't think we could get a deal done'.. West Ham just wandered in and whacked the wedge down however..

Not sure what other strikers were knocking about tbh.

Lozano just scored on his Napoli debut against Juventus.

Originally Posted by AK14

Trust me pal...

The feeling is mutual.



Nah, the replacement we should have signed when selling him would have been a great option to have when looking for a goal like today

In terms of the squad, Greenwood is his replacement. If his shot had gone in, I doubt anyone would be mentioning lukaku or any replacement we didn’t buy. We’re basically a few individual errors away from having 8-10 points. If the goal is to have a team good enough to challenge in 12-24 months, a few dropped points now is not a big deal.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Lozano just scored on his Napoli debut against Juventus.

Yeah, no value/talent etc..

Originally Posted by AK14

Ole has said we wanted to replace Lukaku but failed, so I don’t think Martial was his replacement tbh.

I don’t think it was his preferred choice, but he still got rid of lukaku regardless.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

In terms of the squad, Greenwood is his replacement. If his shot had gone in, I doubt anyone would be mentioning lukaku or any replacement we didn’t buy. We’re basically a few individual errors away from having 8-10 points. If the goal is to have a team good enough to challenge in 12-24 months, a few dropped points now is not a big deal.

%@#$&!s that tbh.

Originally Posted by dunk

Yeah, no value/talent etc..

Versatile, quick striker at a good age. Probably wouldn't instantly command star status. Could have been worth one.

Originally Posted by dunk

We were interested in that Haller that West Ham bought, but 'didn't think we could get a deal done'.. West Ham just wandered in and whacked the wedge down however..

Not sure what other strikers were knocking about tbh.

Is he that much different to Lukaku?

Only seen bits and pieces of him and he looks a decent player tbf.

Originally Posted by dunk

%@#$&!s that tbh.

2 missed penalties and a goalkeeping error makes us 3-5 points worse off than we otherwise would have been. If greenwood scores today, no one would be mentioning lukaku or any replacement we didn’t get.

Greenwood will get more minutes because lukaku has been sold. Martial and rashford will get more minutes as striker also. The 3 of them together will more than make up for lukaku going. The team will also improve as a unit by playing the same style every game and not having to adjust due to having the fat lump up front.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Versatile, quick striker at a good age. Probably wouldn't instantly command star status. Could have been worth one.

We were linked with him when he was in Mexico, had a good look...

I've resigned myself to budget being very tight and the 3 we bought being the extent of it, and it being a conscious and understood decision to strengthen defence essentially at the expense of the rest of the team and hope for the best.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

2 missed penalties and a goalkeeping error makes us 3-5 points worse off than we otherwise would have been. If greenwood scores today, no one would be mentioning lukaku or any replacement we didn’t get.

Works the other way as easily. Palace should've been 2-0 up, so should Chelsea. Our opener against Chelsea was a mistake by Zouma.. and so on and so forth. We have what we've deserved, no more, no less.

If Greenwood scores with his long range speculator, we'd all be rightly pointing out that we put the ball across the face of goal 4 or 5 times with no £#%&!er anywhere near it and Lukaku might've been and should probably have been replaced, as it's £#%&!ing obvious.

Your logic is flawed, you're saying we can only carry 3-4 forwards. Everyone else has 6 at the very least, not including attacking midfielders. 1 injury to Martial and we're down to the bare, untested, bones. It's not a good position to be in with a potential 70 games to play.

Originally Posted by dunk

Works the other way as easily. Palace should've been 2-0 up, so should Chelsea. Our opener against Chelsea was a mistake by Zouma.. and so on and so forth. We have what we've deserved, no more, no less.

Penalties are slightly better chances than those missed by Chelsea and palace.

If Greenwood scores with his long range speculator, we'd all be rightly pointing out that we put the ball across the face of goal 4 or 5 times with no £#%&!er anywhere near it and Lukaku might've been and should probably have been replaced, as it's £#%&!ing obvious.

But then greenwood would get fewer opportunities to play and people would be moaning ole isn’t giving youth a chance.

Originally Posted by dunk

Your logic is flawed, you're saying we can only carry 3-4 forwards. Everyone else has 6 at the very least, not including attacking midfielders. 1 injury to Martial and we're down to the bare, untested, bones. It's not a good position to be in with a potential 70 games to play.

Depends what you’re counting as forwards. We have 3 strikers for 1 position, same as last season. We have numerous players who can play wide or as number 10, if you include Chong and Gomes, which is also an improvement on last season. It’s a gamble, but it’s one worth taking given what a waste of time the players were who they’ve replaced in the squad. We’re no worse off, and may be better if the players who’ve gone were big problems in the dressing room.

In fact, I’m sure plenty of people were arguing last season that they’d rather see youth given a go than stick with the same old rubbish.

If the goal is to do something big this season, it wouldn’t be good enough, but that’s not the goal. The ultimate goal is 12-24 months down the line. Now is about fixing fundamental issues, developing and building.

Hm.. perhaps it would help if there was a bit more seniority, I'm all for the youth but our entire forward line is under 24.. Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, James, Chong. Supported by Lingard and Mata. It's without depth and weak.

The midfield offers nothing in support either, which is also a massive issue. We're basically asking Pogba to be about 4 things at once and hold everything up and getting pissed off with him when he doesn't.

This season is a write off. Just need to steer them through it without utterly ruining their belief and actually getting them playing something resembling a coherent, consistent style.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Anyone can get criticised. With Rashford it does get a little skewed though. Like you seeing Lukaku as a goalscorer when they scored a similar amount. Like Utd99 always referring to James as a kid when he's the same age as Rashford. Just a little perspective needed.

For a 21-year-old Rashford is still a promising talent. But yes, he wasn't good today, albeit he still causes problems.

I refer to Rashford as a kid too.

You want your cake and eat it too. You bang on about “perspective”, but only want to talk about actual age. When it comes to experience at the top level of football you’re strangely silent. Someone might be tempted to think that it somehow doesn’t serve your narrative of representing Rashford as plucky kid trying to break into the first team. He’s played almost 200 games for club and country; is asking for obvious and consistent improvement -not finished article- too much to ask for?

James on the other hand has been playing in the second division and was made up at the idea of joining £#%&!ing Leeds a few months ago. The actual age may be the same , but the footballing age is clearly very different.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You have to look at the whole team. AWB is flavour of the month and I love his defending one-v-one but did he or Young really offer us much? Did Pogba really come through often enough? Pereira again struggles to get into game, The Scottish Player's passing abysmal and the two centre-halves have inflated reputations as ball-players. You can rely on individuals at times, but we need to work better as a team to break down defensive sides. A lot of that will come on the training pitch too.

I do look at the whole team, this just happens to be a thread about the forwards. What I don’t do is use other players to deflect from criticism of a player I’m strangely over protective of. Wan-Bissaka clearly has strengths and weaknesses. Great tackler, less useful going forward, passing mediocre. Pereira, empty shirt atm. The Scottish Player is raw, but I’m confident he’ll come good - he has a great attitude and works his socks off. Pogba is Pogba; he’s like the yin and yang of exceptional play followed by pub quality moments.

None of this answers the question of why Rashford hasn’t pushed on anywhere near as much as he should have.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Did you miss the number of tight games last season where lukaku missed chances? He’s not the answer. He was part of the problem.

I think you might be responding to a point I never made mate. At no point have I ever suggested Lukaku was the answer to anything aside from how far a first touch could go before it becomes a pass.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Who was expecting to compete for anything meaningful this season? It’s a work in progress.

We’re Man Utd; we should always be competing. We should always expect to be competitive because that’s the standard we judge ourselves by. The second 4th becomes acceptable, a semi becomes acceptable, holding our own against the ‘big boys’ become acceptable then that’s our new ‘normal’.

Have we learned nothing from Arsenal?