Dimitar Veron

Does that 'problem' mean you won't give him a chance, allow him to settle into his new surroundings and adapt?

I never wanted him but tbh what I want re Utd, in terms of players, means £#%&! all as I don't have a say in the matter. It's piss and wind on an internet forum that's all.

He's been no better or worse than our other attackers this season. As I've said elsewhere I don't think we could rely on the same three this time around. Form, a degree of predictability, another option needed etc, means we couldn't really afford to stand still.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Does that 'problem' mean you won't give him a chance, allow him to settle into his new surroundings and adapt?

I never wanted him but tbh what I want re Utd, in terms of players, means £#%&! all as I don't have a say in the matter. It's piss and wind on an internet forum that's all.

He's been no better or worse than our other attackers this season. As I've said elsewhere I don't think we could rely on the same three this time around. Form, a degree of predictability, another option needed etc, means we couldn't really afford to stand still.

If you stand still you go backwards, happened in 2000.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

If you stand still you go backwards, happened in 2000.

Indeed. I would have preferred the replacement for Saha to have been a similar sort (minus the injuries), but we got Berbatov. Next few seasons will see how he does.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Indeed. I would have preferred the replacement for Saha to have been a similar sort (minus the injuries), but we got Berbatov. Next few seasons will see how he does.

I can see your point there but I'm not sure there was an option available of that type, nor do we know how they'd have settled. Berbatov is being highlighted but as I think you've stated, there's been no considstency in midfield and the whole forward line has mis-fired this season. in the end, again as you've said, I think a bit of time and perspective is needed.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

If you stand still you go backwards, happened in 2000.

have we gone forwards then?

next season we would be without tevez and ronaldo and in their places have two serbs and berbatov.

id say that's pretty far back tbh.

also this season despite our rivals being weaker we are not where we were last season and without a win against any teams in the top 5.

Not having a pop at Tronics it just seems a fair few have already made their minds up re Berbatov - for one reason and another - and it'll probably take a 30+ goal return from him and a dozen assists each season to change their minds. All a bit odd.

As mentioned before, seems hardwork being a Utd fan these days.

Originally Posted by hollowman

have we gone forwards then?

next season we would be without tevez and ronaldo and in their places have two serbs and berbatov.

id say that's pretty far back tbh.

also this season despite our rivals being weaker we are not where we were last season and without a win against any teams in the top 5.

You are asking a question in the present tense about the future. This is confusing.

I'll just answer by going along with Whalers. Time'll tell. Players need time to settle, both individually and into a team.

dimitar veron never seen that used but its quite apt

Originally Posted by hollowman

have we gone forwards then?

next season we would be without tevez and ronaldo and in their places have two serbs and berbatov.

id say that's pretty far back tbh.

also this season despite our rivals being weaker we are not where we were last season and without a win against any teams in the top 5.

I think it'd be better to judge whether we've gone forwards/backwards/whatever at the end of a season. Passing comment now is a little churlish. It'd be like me providing a year end report to my CEO a quarter of the way through the fiscal year.

As for the games to date, individual performances throughout the squad haven't been that great. Not just Berbatov. Most of the squad from last season are still here and most need a kick up the backside. It looks well when our most exciting performer this season has been Rafael. Says a lot for the experienced Utd players who've been here and done it. They've slackened off I think, arrogance in their play thinking it'll be easy.

The manager also needs to knock all the tinkering on the head. A couple of changes is managable IMO, but 3/4/5???

In terms of personel I don't think Chelsea or Liverpool are weaker than last season.

If players leave, they'll be replaced and Utd will carry on. If the clubs not raking in trophies left right and centre so be it. We can hardly complained we've been starved on that front and I doubt we'd suffer for too long either.

16 matches into 06/07, Berbatov had 3 league goals. He ended up with 12. 16 matches into last season, he had 2. He ended up with 15. Just something to keep in mind.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

WTF does he know eh Carrick.

The quote in that article, jesus christ, I'd wager it's been made up by the journalist.

As for Berbatov not what I wanted, undoubtedly talented though, but three players who were hammered by folk in the early stage of their (now successful) Utd careers were:

Evra
Vidic
Carrick

Perhaps we should just be a little bit patient with our new signings. History suggests it can pay off.

Originally Posted by Carrick

'Some players can do with one pass what others can't do with 90 minutes of running around dementedly,' added Crerand. 'People have judged Berbatov against the industry of people like Tevez and that's unfair. They are different players. But Berbatov will come good. Just wait and see.'

Two good posts.

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

16 matches into 06/07, Berbatov had 3 league goals. He ended up with 12. 16 matches into last season, he had 2. He ended up with 15. Just something to keep in mind.

if only carlos could see you now

Originally Posted by hollowman

if only carlos could see you now

Tevez, Quieroz or the Jackel?

Originally Posted by hollowman

if only carlos could see you now

I know. I feel so dirty

We have three excellent strikers, one may not be the type needed but he's here now. We'll see how it pans out.

Serenity, said before he isn't that prolific. Certainly wasn't in the league for Spurs. How many assists though - he was up there last year? I realise he's paid to score goals but can't discount his other contribution. He'd probably have double figures with us now if we'd taken a few more of the chances he's created.

Charlie Nicholas (I think) was going on about chances he's created for Utd the other week, forget the figure quoted. It was a lot more than chances taken. No idea where they got it from either.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

We have three excellent strikers, one may not be the type needed but he's here now. We'll see how it pans out.

Serenity, said before he isn't that prolific. Certainly wasn't in the league for Spurs. How many assists though - he was up there last year? I realise he's paid to score goals but can't discount his other contribution. He'd probably have double figures with us now if we'd taken a few more of the chances he's created.

Charlie Nicholas (I think) was going on about chances he's created for Utd the other week, forget the figure quoted. It was a lot more than chances taken. No idea where they got it from either.

36 in 10 games I think, way above anyone else.

That's the reason he was bought; he can create chances that nobody else can.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Serenity, said before he isn't that prolific. Certainly wasn't in the league for Spurs. How many assists though - he was up there last year? I realise he's paid to score goals but can't discount his other contribution. He'd probably have double figures with us now if we'd taken a few more of the chances he's created.

I wasn't criticising his goalscoring record. Just making the point that in his two seasons at Spurs he scored the vast majority of his goals from about this stage of the season forward. His record so far at United is in keeping with that pattern; fingers crossed that the other part of that holds up. I think it probably will.

Originally Posted by Carrick

36 in 10 games I think, way above anyone else.

That's the reason he was bought; he can create chances that nobody else can.

Not exaclty what you're looking for in a youtube compilation or stats for computer games though is it.

I'm going to withdraw from such debate/discussion in the future. It's getting like the threads last season where I'd pop up to defend Tevez time and time again.

I'm a huge fan of Tevez and he'll get games at Utd this season. Pleased about that. We've got a different option in Berbatov now and we'll see how that goes over the next few seasons. And then there's Wayne.

Good grief, it wasn't long ago we had the likes of Forlan and Bellion making up our attacking options.

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

I wasn't criticising his goalscoring record. Just making the point that in his two seasons at Spurs he scored the vast majority of his goals from about this stage of the season forward. His record so far at United is in keeping with that pattern; fingers crossed that the other part of that holds up. I think it probably will.

Oh I know, and yes I agree.

Anyway, the Tevez and Berbatov show tomorrow.