Bobby Charlton: Absolute United Legend

Originally Posted by wee man

What is the true story of the ticket touting allegation that is continually thrown at him ?

he gave a few away and they ended up on the black market

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

he gave a few away and they ended up on the black market

So he didn't profit at all and basically people took advantage of his good nature ? And over the years people have used that to beat him up with.

Originally Posted by wee man

So he didn't profit at all and basically people took advantage of his good nature ? And over the years people have used that to beat him up with.

there's no smoke without fire

having said that it's easy to imagine loads of the old players making a few quid on the sly off tickets

and it's easy to imagine your Charltons not being too clever at covering their tracks

He has suffered from post-traumatic stress and "survivors syndrome" since 1958. In all the interviews he has given he says "Why me? I can't get over why I survived and everyone else was slain". Not once does he start this sentance with "It took me a long time to get over it...." He clearly hasn't,

At the time, there was no therapy, there was no process to help him get over the loss - just "go up and see you mam, come back when you're ready".

There is a direct comparison to be made with the stress and loss felt by SBC with the thousands of American soldiers returning from Vietnam. Many of which committed suicide after being involuntarily involved in horrific situations which resulted in the loss of their friends and colleagues.

The fact that he had such great talent on the pitch which provided him with an escape probably saved his life. Once off the pitch, the game provdies no distraction and the human condition reverts to introspective thought. No wonder he might be thought of as a mardy bugger if you bump in to him on a plane.

Originally Posted by IsaacHunt

He has suffered from post-traumatic stress and "survivors syndrome" since 1958. In all the interviews he has given he says "Why me? I can't get over why I survived and everyone else was slain". Not once does he start this sentance with "It took me a long time to get over it...." He clearly hasn't,

At the time, there was no therapy, there was no process to help him get over the loss - just "go up and see you mam, come back when you're ready".

There is a direct comparison to be made with the stress and loss felt by SBC with the thousands of American soldiers returning from Vietnam. Many of which committed suicide after being involuntarily involved in horrific situations which resulted in the loss of their friends and colleagues.

The fact that he had such great talent on the pitch which provided him with an escape probably saved his life. Once off the pitch, the game provdies no distraction and the human condition reverts to introspective thought. No wonder he might be thought of as a mardy bugger if you bump in to him on a plane.

From the opening paragraph of his book:-

Now, when I look back on my life and remember all that I wanted from it as a young boy in the North East, I see more clearly than ever it is a miracle. I see one privilege heaped upon another. I wonder all over again how so much could come to one man simply because he was able to do something which for him was so natural and easy, and which he knew from the start he loved to do more than anything else.

None of this wonderment is lessened by knowing that when I played football was probably as dedicated as any professional could be, though I claim no great credit for this. Playing was, in all honesty, almost as natural as breathing. No, the truth is that, although I did work hard at developing the gifts I'd been given, the path of my life truly has been a miracle granted to me. Why, I cannot explain. But in Munich in 1958 I learned that even miracles come at a price.

Mine, until the day I die, is a tragedy which robbed me of so many of my dearest friends who happened to be team-mates - and so many of the certainties that had come to me, one as seamlessly as another, in my brief and largely untroubled life up to that moment.

Even now, fifty years on, it still reaches down and touches me every day. Sometimes feel it quite lightly, a mere brush stroke across an otherwise happy mood. Sometimes it engulfs me with terrible regret and sadness - and guilt that I walked away and found so much. But whatever the severity of its presence, the Munich air crash is always there, always a factor that can never be discounted, never put down like time-exhausted baggage.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

has anybody got any first-hand experience of sir bobby and his supposed contempt for the fans?

i was a match going red for years and i never heard any other reds i spoke to say anything other than positive things about their encounters with him.

My dad met him a couple of times through work and said he was really unpleasant. This is from a man who £#%&!ing worshipped the guy in the 60s.

But anyway, the above posts about Munich and its effects on him are bang on, you can't blame a guy for being distant with people after something like that. Losing all your best mates in an accident, then not only recovering but going on to reach the absolute top....like I said I respect that.
And there are worse people to get worked up about. It's just, like Fergie, some of the things he's said in recent years I've found hard not to get annoyed about.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the club didn't defy a directive from the FA over European competition really, it just chose to tred its own path

more visionary and self-aware than rebellious

Perhaps so. Whatever you call it, I still think it's brilliant.

I've met him. He was polite & very quietly spoken. I was only about 12 or so at the time.

I can't get my head around any fan of Manchester United that doesn't have complete & utter love & respect for Bobby Charlton.
He IS Manchester United.

he was Andrew Sachs before Andrew Sachs - imagine hearing about your granddaughters escapades in a garden shed in public with BIG 3Y3s.

BIG 3Y3s > Brand and Ross.

As for Sir Robert - he has spent 50 years (at least) around United.

A total legend.

Only ever met him once when I was about 10 at one of his soccer school things and he was very chirpy from what I recall and a real enthusiast.

totally seems opposite to what the general opinion is but he was good fun the day I met him.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Perhaps so. Whatever you call it, I still think it's brilliant.

it is - the whole history of United is full of tales of mavericks and rogues

i was more on about the fans tbh

it's a (sad) fact that United - for all the run-ins with the football authorities down the years - is pretty much part of the establishment, and as such the fans, especially those who protest, are never likely to represent its conscience even if they share the same aspirations for the team and enjoy a mutual inspiration thingywatsit

maybe that's also why FC was almost inevitable for a decade before it happened, and why it is such a good outlet for the fans who make it what it is?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

it is - the whole history of United is full of tales of mavericks and rogues

i was more on about the fans tbh

it's a (sad) fact that United - for all the run-ins with the football authorities down the years - is pretty much part of the establishment, and as such the fans, especially those who protest, are never likely to represent its conscience even if they share the same aspirations for the team and enjoy a mutual inspiration thingywatsit

maybe that's also why FC was almost inevitable for a decade before it happened, and why it is such a good outlet for the fans who make it what it is?

Yep.

I tend to shy away from things that claim to be the 'conscience' of anything - I think it's arrogant and presumptuous.

I do think, though, that the original United has been @#%&!d out to such epic proportions over the years that people have totally lost sight of it, to the extent that people can get understandably emotional over a picture of dead players and in the next breath defend the club for letting their sponsor advertise on it.

A Strange Kind of Glory was a good read for that reason.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Yep.

I tend to shy away from things that claim to be the 'conscience' of anything - I think it's arrogant and presumptuous.

I do think, though, that the original United has been @#%&!d out to such epic proportions over the years that people have totally lost sight of it, to the extent that people can get understandably emotional over a picture of dead players and in the next breath defend the club for letting their sponsor advertise on it.

A Strange Kind of Glory was a good read for that reason.

i see what you're saying, but think it's slightly skewed (as I'm sure you know I would)

i never defended the club, i said it was irrelevant to me because the picture itself is the only thing that mattered, and matters

i have the exact same picture with Getty's Images written in the bottom corner. i'm sure it's available with other logos and with none at all, but it is still a picture that speaks for itself.

i don't buy into the media world of promotions and logos and advertising and all the rest of it. i know it carries a certain immediate power when an advert catches you by surprise, and that brand names are passed into everyday language. but you can't stick a label on something that already has a more powerful message than any words could possibly speak

anyway, that's all old ground...

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i see what you're saying, but think it's slightly skewed (as I'm sure you know I would)

i never defended the club, i said it was irrelevant to me because the picture itself is the only thing that mattered, and matters

i have the exact same picture with Getty's Images written in the bottom corner. i'm sure it's available with other logos and with none at all, but it is still a picture that speaks for itself.

i don't buy into the media world of promotions and logos and advertising and all the rest of it. i know it carries a certain immediate power when an advert catches you by surprise, and that brand names are passed into everyday language. but you can't stick a label on something that already has a more powerful message than any words could possibly speak

anyway, that's all old ground...

Well, I believe you can ruin, sully and insult something by shoving a logo on it, which is why I wouldn't like to see Old Trafford renamed after a company. It would be shit. Thankfully that doesn't look like it will happen. But as you say, old ground, etc.

In any case Bobby Charlton is a sporting legend, and he belongs to United, and no other club has one like him. That can't be denied.