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The perceived decline is largely a myth. The new manager had some terrific talent ready to be moulded around his own ideas. Moyes didn't have the time to do it before his methods were rejected. LVG is in the process of doing it now - with De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Young, Valencia, Rooney, Carrick, Januzaj and Hernandez all still part of the squad 3 summers later. |
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I also remember fergie lamenting losing out on 4 in a row. There was a lot of regret there, and personally, I read into it that it was because he was unable to invest in the team as he'd have liked and he missed out on something historic as a result. He could invest, but not on those special talents that make the differnce at the highest level. Every special player that retired was replaced by an inferior player. One of the reasons Giggs and scholes were kept around as long as possible. Quote:
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There's always a lag before the mentality of opponents catches up to current reality. Some teams were getting less scared, had a go, but then still shit it in the last minutes. Fergie going just accelerated that mentality change in our opponents. Quote:
There were a lot of close games against average opposition in those last few title wins. Some real struggles that the team somehow managed to squeak something out of due to mentality of ourselves and our opponents. Once fergie left, we still had those struggles, but failed to squeeze something out of them due to the psychological changes. Quote:
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Whatever problems in the squad Fergie passed on to the next manger, a £300 million spend over the next 2 years should have been enough to fix. We start this season with concerns over GK, the central defenders, creativity from wide and the striker position.
That 12/13 team is widely scorned but they should have knocked Madrid out of the CL. Over the course of the 2 games they were every bit as good as Madrid and that is with derided names like Jones, Welbeck, Evans, Cleverley, Rafael, Nani, Kagawa all playing major parts. It was a flawed squad but there was plenty of talent to work with. 89 points and 86 goals does not come from a shit team, they only won one of the last 4 league games as well, could have been a record points tally. We lost some senior names, but Giggs, Scholes and even Vidic were not major influences on that season, Vidic only started 22 games all season. |
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Can you do our wage bill next? Pre and post summer transfers? Cheers |
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But at least I only look a bit of a @#%&! eh? whereas ............... |
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wtf? The @#%&! has left the building. You want a bank statement from the £#%&!ing club secretary? Just a rough guide pal. |
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LVG didn't have anything like the same headache - Ferdinand was ready to be put out to grass, and Vidic & Evra jumped ship. It's absolutely baffling that the club didn't bring in major signings down the spine the summer Fergie left. But for LVG to have 3 transfer windows and a blank chequebook and still not bring in a leader for that defence is mind-blowing. |
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LVG brought in Rojo and Shaw last summer, and this window is not closed yet |
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re Rojo and Shaw - one doesn't play down the spine and the other has much to prove this season but really needs a quality partner. |
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You don't need to give me anything. My point is that the club were not ready to deal with Ferguson's departure. If they had players lined up they should have bought them and given them to the manager, followed by asking him if he wanted anyone else. As we have seen, they don't actually care if the signings flop and they have to take a hit. Well, that's nice and all, but if that's the way they wanted to go why did they not do it straight away? |
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Nevertheless it is not the club’s job to sign players and impose them on the manager, which seems to be what you’re suggesting |
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Thiago was only ever going to play for Guardiola. Makes me laugh tbh. People will ignore actual comments the player has made subsequently, ignore comments Guardiola has made, in favour of the 'don't really know anything' ITK story from the time.
Thiago was never coming, nor was Kroos. |
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I've made the point I wanted to make very very clearly. Quote:
The club had deals lined up for LVG in the shape of Shaw and Herrera. He barely even knew who Shaw was. |
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Moyes had the whole summer (and earlier) to work on targets. LvG arrived in mid July, some two months later, which is probably why his six signings included two the club had set up, two household names offered by Woodward, a player he already knows inside out and a defender he'd have studied as an opponent at the World Cup. The big initial risk with van Gaal was always that, despite being a summer appointment, he'd have very little preparation time for the new season. The tour robbed him of the training he'd like to have done, and his World Cup participation made scouting impossible. Besides, he inherited three youngish British defenders with big reputations as far as the club (and Ferguson) was concerned. I do think he wanted to give them a go. If we consider a defensive leader to be someone with experience and proven quality at the highest level, as well as the footballing characteristics LvG likes, they're not that easy to come by. I'd settle now for another quality youngster. We've spent nearly £300m since Fergie left, but it's been a rush-job, which is a big part of the problem. That and a third of it going on Di Maria and £#%&!ing Fellaini. |
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You say "problems" with the squad that Fergie left, but again it's a surface argument. Delve deeper, list out the squad one by one and tell me which of those players you deem were good enough to have gotten us back to where we wanted to be. And to belittle the influence of a Giggs, Scholes Vidic and Ferdinand feels like moulding the facts to fit a predetermined conclusion. These were our leaders, our winners; been there done it, seen it all. Role models. Their effect, along with that of Ferguson of course, on our support players can never be underestimated. It was only when this influence in the changing room was removed that the inadequacies of the rest was laid bare. These were more than just a few "problems" we could throw some money at. Also, you are savvy enough to know you cannot cherry pick one or two games, in this case the RM matches, to make the point that they were indeed good enough. Anyone can have a good game at any time, but what does that mean? If Jones has a £#%&!ing stormer against Spurs, is he suddenly the answer? None of these players you mentioned will play shit every game, it doesn't work that way. The question should be how many shit ones will they have over a 60 game season? It doesn't require Welbeck, Smalling, Evans, Jones, Valencia et al to be 'good' to have a good team, nor does a good team automatically make the aforementioned players 'good'. You can win despite them, which is precisely what happened. |
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The young spine of Jones/Smalling/Evans-Cleverley-Welbz was soft as shite mentally, if we're honest. |
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