can we set some parameters please

Originally Posted by Stickman

4th last season was just acceptable, let's not forget when the season commenced many thought we could get straight back to challenging for the title. I expected progress this year so obviously 3rd or better - The league is of poor standard at the top this year so failure to improve on last years position is a notable failure for me. I suspect he'll need to finish 4th to survive which sets the bar nice and low again, I can't see that though at all unless we catch Leicester after a collapse because Tottenham being the least erratic side up there are going from strength to strength and I really don't see City or Arsenal slipping to 5th either. I think we'll finish the season in 5th if we buy well next month, which would be pathetic. Outside of top 4?this year is inexcusable in my view.

Well this pretty much goes to the heart of the debate about Van Gaal, or any other manager come to that, in that you set targets but do you wait to act until their targets are actually missed, or when it becomes probable that they will be? Do you pass judgement only after the agreed upon time frame has passed in full. Or do you assess on the fly?

Giving a manager time can be seen as both a good and a bad thing, especially given that three top managers were theoretically available during the window of uncertainty.

Originally Posted by Stickman

4th last season was just acceptable, let's not forget when the season commenced many thought we could get straight back to challenging for the title. I expected progress this year so obviously 3rd or better - The league is of poor standard at the top this year so failure to improve on last years position is a notable failure for me. I suspect he'll need to finish 4th to survive which sets the bar nice and low again, I can't see that though at all unless we catch Leicester after a collapse because Tottenham being the least erratic side up there are going from strength to strength and I really don't see City or Arsenal slipping to 5th either. I think we'll finish the season in 5th if we buy well next month, which would be pathetic. Outside of top 4?this year is inexcusable in my view.

However this season pans out, it's been a cluster £#%&! of epic proportions.
The quality of football is as bad as I can remember for a long time.

Finishing outside the top 4 isn't acceptable given the state of this division. But we've set the bar at 4th and that says a lot about the state of the club atm

Originally Posted by Cream

With a transfer window approaching, there can be absolutely no excuses for finishing outside the top 4. That would be an all round failure where any sane observer would draw the line - especially with Chelsea out of the way.

I still believe we have a chance at finishing in the top 3 at least and frankly would expect nothing less.

All academic if a change of manager is being worked on as we speak.

Not happning

Originally Posted by marlo

but anyway the goal post shifts so much for the dutch one so whats the new standard...

So true. The cardies started off saying top 4 was the plan last year (albeit there was a strong 'on thread' as well) and then challenge for the title this year.

Any cardie saying anything other than a top four finish is acceptable this year is lying and if truth be told, they would have expected us in either 1st or 2nd.

But, where are we going with all this? Are we saying that if he doesn't achieve x,y and z he should be booted and if so, for whom? If pep or poch were available now i'd boot him tomorrow. If its giggs and mou then I'd probably see if anything can click in the 2nd half of the season.

But on here, my main beef has been with people on here refusing to criticise anything he did. Going to extraordinary lengths to find an excuse for each and every question. For example, sparky went through the whole of last season resolutely ignoring anything questionable thing that the thumb did (and there were plenty of examples) but has gone full on doom this year

It's weird.

we are closer to 11th then 4th.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

But on here, my main beef has been with people on here refusing to criticise anything he did. Going to extraordinary lengths to find an excuse for each and every question. For example, sparky went through the whole of last season resolutely ignoring anything questionable thing that the thumb did (and there were plenty of examples) but has gone full on doom this year

It's weird.

It's reminded me of Rawk/rafa at times and I never thought I'd think that about here. My personal peeves are when its pointed out his squads too thin in his defence, and as Marlo alluded the players turning on Moyes was used as power to the players and evidence the manager was shite (he was but that's not the point) yet when it's alledged they turn on LVG has gout it's used as an excuse as to challenges the manager faces. And don't get me started on the conspiracy theories that Rio Scholes etc are being dishonest in criticising our style of play.

Originally Posted by ScarFace

we are closer to 11th then 4th.

What position are we in the league?

Originally Posted by Stickman

It's reminded me of Rawk/rafa at times and I never thought I'd think that about here. My personal peeves are when its pointed out his squads too thin in his defence, and as Marlo alluded the players turning on Moyes was used as power to the players and evidence the manager was shite (he was but that's not the point) yet when it's alledged they turn on LVG has gout it's used as an excuse as to challenges the manager faces. And don't get me started on the conspiracy theories that Rio Scholes etc are being dishonest in criticising our style of play.

As far as I'm concerned stickers, you've been a bastion of free thinking from day 1. No agenda, just seeing it as it is.

Originally Posted by waynes ear's

What position are we in the league?

The weirdest thing now is that accepting second best is pro United, whereas not accepting it is anti most of it is for rep and online positioning but some of it is just odd.

Who, cardie or not, has said finishing outside the top 4 is acceptable? Genuine question.

Originally Posted by believe

The weirdest thing now is that accepting second best is pro United, whereas not accepting it is anti most of it is for rep and online positioning but some of it is just odd.

It's not a case of that, it's recognising where we currently are and not getting bent out of shape because we aren't where we want to be. We can all scream and moan because we aren't winning the league, but the reality is that the club isn't in a position to win titles atm, and hasn't been pretty much since we last picked up the trophy, and it takes time to get back to that level when the club has self sabotaged as much as this one has. There is no magic formula. You have to rebuild the squad with young, hungry players and allow them time to grow together, we aren't even halfway through yet. Patience is key. If there's an issue with the progress, it'll be assessed in summer and decisions will be made then, I'd imagine.

Originally Posted by Ethers

Who, cardie or not, has said finishing outside the top 4 is acceptable? Genuine question.

That makes me seethe.

We should always be in the top 4 ffs.

We can still win the league. It was very positive the other night, but we clearly lack a bit of quality in vital positions. A couple of players could completely revitalise this team. Whether LVG is here or not, it's still on as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, we're on here fannying about and whining about finishing top 4, but look at Chelsea. Talk about a fall from grace. They're absolutely shocking!

As for me, I've been spending my days cleaning up from these £#%&!ing floods, to then be told today that we may flood again in the next few days because of some bastard called Frank. Shit happens though, right?

That's why they call me positive Norris.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

So true. The cardies started off saying top 4 was the plan last year (albeit there was a strong 'on thread' as well) and then challenge for the title this year.

Any cardie saying anything other than a top four finish is acceptable this year is lying and if truth be told, they would have expected us in either 1st or 2nd.

But, where are we going with all this? Are we saying that if he doesn't achieve x,y and z he should be booted and if so, for whom? If pep or poch were available now i'd boot him tomorrow. If its giggs and mou then I'd probably see if anything can click in the 2nd half of the season.

But on here, my main beef has been with people on here refusing to criticise anything he did. Going to extraordinary lengths to find an excuse for each and every question. For example, sparky went through the whole of last season resolutely ignoring anything questionable thing that the thumb did (and there were plenty of examples) but has gone full on doom this year

It's weird.

Post Fergie has hit us hard tbh. All over the shop.

I wonder what City's parameters are given Chelsea and United are dead in the water?

3rd behind Arsenal and Leicester, just 6 points above us. Spent a fortune. Manager has been there years.

Crisis.

Originally Posted by Cream

I wonder what City's parameters are given Chelsea and United are dead in the water?

3rd behind Arsenal and Leicester, just 6 points above us. Spent a fortune. Manager has been there years.

Crisis.

It's amazing to me that despite everything they have spent in the last five or so years, they are still reliant on that original spine of Kompany, Silva, Aguero and -less so- Toure. Without those guys they are £#%&! all.

Originally Posted by utd99

It's amazing to me that despite everything they have spent in the last five or so years, they are still reliant on that original spine of Kompany, Silva, Aguero and -less so- Toure. Without those guys they are £#%&! all.

What about Samir?

Originally Posted by wiganste

What about Samir?

Does he still play for them?

Originally Posted by NegativeNorris

Anyway, we're on here fannying about and whining about finishing top 4, but look at Chelsea. Talk about a fall from grace. They're absolutely shocking!

Irrelevant. Its that line of thinking that softens the blow of allowing the standards to slip.