Just go now, Jose.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Yes, but that attitude never really suited Madrid, and despite their amazing goals tallies they were often a very reactive side, fantastic on the counter and at running up scores against dross, but often very cynical against any perceived threats. Caused a lot of division with the players and officials at the club.

Madrid wanted to be the glamour club again. Glamour not necessarily in style but in name reputation.

They brought back Capello and he won the league but in a defensive way and a has-been demeanour. They went down the "former player doing well at a lower level" route with Bernd Schuster and he won the league playing good style football but you had to be a certain age to know who he was. Pellegrini was a stop-gap for that glamour appointee and Mourinho's CL win, his attitude, his CV was ideal.

Part of the reason some of us hoped JM might work at United was that he fairly obviously wanted to be here. It maybe wasn't unreasonable to hope he might modify his ways *a bit*, given that.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Part of the reason some of us hoped JM might work at United was that he fairly obviously wanted to be here. It maybe wasn't unreasonable to hope he might modify his ways *a bit*, given that.

I think both parties have drastically failed to live up to the other's expectations.

We thought he'd be better and I'm damn sure he thought the club would be run better than it is.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Part of the reason some of us hoped JM might work at United was that he fairly obviously wanted to be here. It maybe wasn't unreasonable to hope he might modify his ways *a bit*, given that.

Yup, no-one was expecting Rinus Michels to turn up but his demeanour has been negative from the off and it took him three seasons and horrendous results to even attempt to strike an insincere rapport with fans.

Can we really be that bad off the pitch compared to other clubs? Been five years since Moyesie set about improving the scouting situation, what is it we are lacking exactly compared the rest?

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Yes, but that attitude never really suited Madrid, and despite their amazing goals tallies they were often a very reactive side, fantastic on the counter and at running up scores against dross, but often very cynical against any perceived threats. Caused a lot of division with the players and officials at the club.




I just look at his attitude in the summer, the contempt he had for working with kids with the WC keeping his group apart and can not see that man as a Utd manager. LVG failed, but it was the correct type of idea, trying to build a team and style together. They should have identified a young coach with a similar work ethic and tried that idea again. Mourinho was just panic and desperate need to be relevant with a big name and possible short term success.

I thought this was spectacularly obvious at the time, although many didn't understand the idea being right because LvG was portrayed as someone damaging United's very fabric with every week. Mourinho was a panic appointment who would set about ruining the good things LvG had put in place. Proper baby out with the bath water job from the club and in many ways they're getting what they deserve.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Part of the reason some of us hoped JM might work at United was that he fairly obviously wanted to be here. It maybe wasn't unreasonable to hope he might modify his ways *a bit*, given that.

Not unreasonable, but deluded. Mou has become increasingly staunch in his determination to do things his way. In fact he resents the idea that his anti-Barca approach is wrong so much that he'd probably rather retire than try to build a possession-based, proactive side.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

LVG failed, but it was the correct type of idea, trying to build a team and style together. They should have identified a young coach with a similar work ethic and tried that idea again. Mourinho was just panic and desperate need to be relevant with a big name and possible short term success.

.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I thought this was spectacularly obvious at the time, although many didn't understand the idea being right because LvG was portrayed as someone damaging United's very fabric with every week. Mourinho was a panic appointment who would set about ruining the good things LvG had put in place. Proper baby out with the bath water job from the club and in many ways they're getting what they deserve.



Not unreasonable, but deluded. Mou has become increasingly staunch in his determination to do things his way. In fact he resents the idea that his anti-Barca approach is wrong so much that he'd probably rather retire than try to build a possession-based, proactive side.

Football shouldn’t be a joyless, soul crushing experience, no matter what stage of transition you’re at. You’ll have noted, of course, many of the people you classify as uneducated on these matters are subjecting Mourinho to the same standards as they applied to the messiah.

Top consistant reds.

Originally Posted by utd99

Football shouldn’t be a joyless, soul crushing experience, no matter what stage of transition you’re at. You’ll have noted, of course, many of the people you classify as uneducated on these matters are subjecting Mourinho to the same standards as they applied to the messiah.

Top consistant reds.

Teams in transition can play shit football. Before United signed Cantona we couldn't buy a goal for months.

If the idea is right, you can focus on getting the right blend of players. Or you can just say it's all LvG's fault and tear the whole thing up

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Teams in transition can play shit football. Before United signed Cantona we couldn't buy a goal for months.

If the idea is right, you can focus on getting the right blend of players. Or you can just say it's all LvG's fault and tear the whole thing up

That’s a misrepresentation though. You have to make decisions based on what your expectations were, where you are now and where you’re likely to be in a few season’s time. Pretty sure our expectations weren’t slow boring football, transfers flopping all over the place and not competing for any of the top prizes any more for van Gaal than they are for Mourinho; but that’s what we got, and in large part still have. That’s why people are now revising whether this is the right man to take us on. I don’t think he is.

When life long reds can’t be arsed about the next game, something’s really wrong, and a power point presentation on why they don’t get it really isn’t going to help.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

Can we really be that bad off the pitch compared to other clubs? Been five years since Moyesie set about improving the scouting situation, what is it we are lacking exactly compared the rest?

The scouts identified exactly the type of players we’d want united to sign, according to the times article where it gave the list. What we lack is owners who give a shit about football and someone else doing Woodward’s job.

The glazers and united would have been royally £#%&!ed if Fergie had retired somewhere between 2005-2008.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Teams in transition can play shit football. Before United signed Cantona we couldn't buy a goal for months.

We were still good to watch in the 2 years prior to his arrival, particularly 92-93. Probably the best football since docherty.

If the idea is right, you can focus on getting the right blend of players. Or you can just say it's all LvG's fault and tear the whole thing up

Van gaal should never have been hired. Just doesn’t play united’s way, or indeed the way Giggs would like to play if the plan was for him to take over.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

We were still good to watch in the 2 years prior to his arrival, particularly 92-93. Probably the best football since docherty.

That was when he arrived?

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

The scouts identified exactly the type of players we’d want united to sign, according to the times article where it gave the list. What we lack is owners who give a shit about football and someone else doing Woodward’s job.

The glazers and united would have been royally £#%&!ed if Fergie had retired somewhere between 2005-2008.



We were still good to watch in the 2 years prior to his arrival, particularly 92-93. Probably the best football since docherty.



Van gaal should never have been hired. Just doesn’t play united’s way, or indeed the way Giggs would like to play if the plan was for him to take over.

I love your selective viewpoint. Nothing in the press can be believed, unless it suits you obvs.

At this point it feels like the club needs something cataclysmic to properly ignite change. Something akin to Barca’s brush with relegation in the mid 00’s. Until then they’ll be so busy trying to protect what they ‘have’ they won’t ever do the necessary to move forward.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

That was when he arrived?

Oh Jammy.

We were really struggling when he arrived. Complete hangover from losing the title to Leeds in 92.

Hughes and McClair up front couldn't score for shit and Dion Dublin broke his leg.

His arrival was the catalyst to go to that extra level. That bit more to take us from nearly to right there.

He had an intangible 'You had to be there' quality. His record doesn't look great on paper. He was only actually at United for two full seasons (factoring in transfers and bans. Madness) and I've seen better players in my lifetime.....

.....but I have never seen anyone more charismatic and important to a team transition than him. He lifted everyone. The kids in the side gravitated towards him and even the more senior players like schmeichel, Parker, pallister, Bruce went up a level and followed his lead.

His aura was of a man who was just meant to be there and ready to lift us to a new height.

He had a swagger and style that belong at the club. Skill, arrogance, class and a maverick.... a proper £#%&!ing United type of player.

Imo, He's the single most important player We've ever signed in terms of changing the trajectory of the club.

I adore him and if armers deletes this for being off topic, I'll kick off.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Oh Jammy.

We were really struggling when he arrived. Complete hangover from losing the title to Leeds in 92.

Hughes and McClair up front couldn't score for shit and Dion Dublin broke his leg.

His arrival was the catalyst to go to that extra level. That bit more to take us from nearly to right there.

He had an intangible 'You had to be there' quality. His record doesn't look great on paper. He was only actually at United for two full seasons (factoring in transfers and bans. Madness) and I've seen better players in my lifetime.....

.....but I have never seen anyone more charismatic and important to a team transition than him. He lifted everyone. The kids in the side gravitated towards him and even the more senior players like schmeichel, Parker, pallister, Bruce went up a level and followed his lead.

His aura was of a man who was just meant to be there and ready to lift us to a new height.

He had a swagger and style that belong at the club. Skill, arrogance, class and a maverick.... a proper £#%&!ing United type of player.

Imo, He's the single most important player We've ever signed in terms of changing the trajectory of the club.

I adore him and if armers deletes this for being off topic, I'll kick off.

Postage.

I've taken a screenshot in case he does

I £#%&!ing love him. Even got the same tattoo as him out of respect.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Oh Jammy.

We were really struggling when he arrived. Complete hangover from losing the title to Leeds in 92.

Hughes and McClair up front couldn't score for shit and Dion Dublin broke his leg.

His arrival was the catalyst to go to that extra level. That bit more to take us from nearly to right there.

He had an intangible 'You had to be there' quality. His record doesn't look great on paper. He was only actually at United for two full seasons (factoring in transfers and bans. Madness) and I've seen better players in my lifetime.....

.....but I have never seen anyone more charismatic and important to a team transition than him. He lifted everyone. The kids in the side gravitated towards him and even the more senior players like schmeichel, Parker, pallister, Bruce went up a level and followed his lead.

His aura was of a man who was just meant to be there and ready to lift us to a new height.

He had a swagger and style that belong at the club. Skill, arrogance, class and a maverick.... a proper £#%&!ing United type of player.

Imo, He's the single most important player We've ever signed in terms of changing the trajectory of the club.

I adore him and if armers deletes this for being off topic, I'll kick off.

Could not agree with you more.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

His arrival was the catalyst to go to that extra level. That bit more to take us from nearly to right there.

except in Europe obvs

Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC

except in Europe obvs

That would probably be Dwight Yorke

Originally Posted by dunk

That would probably be Dwight Yorke

yessir

Ole Cole and Yorkie with big Teddy as back-up

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Oh Jammy.

We were really struggling when he arrived. Complete hangover from losing the title to Leeds in 92.

We played terrific football throughout the latter part of 1991, goals galore.

Then we lost 4-1 at home to QPR on New Year's Day (it remains the only time they have ever won at OT) and we never really recovered until Eric arrived.

(that game was the day after Fergal's 50th birthday - it is widely believed, though officially denied to this day, that both he and leading players had been out on the piss)

Originally Posted by utd99

That’s a misrepresentation though. You have to make decisions based on what your expectations were, where you are now and where you’re likely to be in a few season’s time. Pretty sure our expectations weren’t slow boring football, transfers flopping all over the place and not competing for any of the top prizes any more for van Gaal than they are for Mourinho; but that’s what we got, and in large part still have. That’s why people are now revising whether this is the right man to take us on. I don’t think he is.

When life long reds can’t be arsed about the next game, something’s really wrong, and a power point presentation on why they don’t get it really isn’t going to help.

I agree, but that's not what happened. Perspective, which is so important, had been lost. I remember lads on here with whom I disagreed at the time, such as Tibs, admitting that the moaning had become habitual. Routine wins were no longer good enough because we hadn't won 4-0. It's more popular now for people to state the idea was right, the execution not, but even that wasn't being said much at the time. By Spring '16, the assessment was no longer clear-minded. If it was people wouldn't have chosen to hand that side to Mourinho.

I never disputed that United playing dull football wasn't good enough, or that fans have a right to express themselves when they pay money to go to games. But while it's definitely important to acknowledge a problem, it's even more important is to understand the cause. That doesn't mean waving your arms about, looking for the easiest fix, focusing on the easiest target.

You have to truly identify the real key problems and issues. I don't think United as a club, starting with the fans and ending with the board, quite got that right. And they certainly £#%&!ed up with what they thought the solution was.