Glazers looking to re-finance the debt

Glazers looking to re-finance the debt against future ticket sales.

Is this not a very dangerous game? when fergie retires we may not be the dominant force we are now and i suspect a few trophyless seasons where we finish middle of the pack could see a considerable drop in attendances then what does that mean?

The seem pretty desperate the way they keep coming back to this, i mean if the original plan was decent wouldnt they just stick to that?

How much longer do you think they are going to stick around for? they dont live in the UK, have to travel thousands of miles to get to the games, have the banks breathing down their necks and have interest piling up and are not even really interested in the sport. And yet if stories are to be believed they are not interested in selling up for a profit. Bizarre.


http://football.guardian.co.uk/Colum...src=rss&feed=5

Originally Posted by Lou_Macari_Chippy

Glazers looking to re-finance the debt against future ticket sales.

Is this not a very dangerous game? when fergie retires we may not be the dominant force we are now and i suspect a few trophyless seasons where we finish middle of the pack could see a considerable drop in attendances then what does that mean?

The seem pretty desperate the way they keep coming back to this, i mean if the original plan was decent wouldnt they just stick to that?

How much longer do you think they are going to stick around for? they dont live in the UK, have to travel thousands of miles to get to the games, have the banks breathing down their necks and have interest piling up and are not even really interested in the sport. And yet if stories are to be believed they are not interested in selling up for a profit. Bizarre.


http://football.guardian.co.uk/Colum...src=rss&feed=5

1. The banks aren't breathing down their necks- Zapata, their holding company has 1.3 billion in cash alone. They could pay it off if they wanted to. They aren't that desperate. (Btw, does everyone know that their company has ties to the CIA, Bush Sr, the Bay of Pigs, Watergate, and Iran Contra?)

2. They won't be around for very long, I'd suspect 3-5 years max. They are very interested in selling at a profit, its the only way you make money from a football club. They are banking on the PL making the same kind of jump the NFL did in the early 90's, when the value of teams jumped significantly.

3. Securitization isn't as dangerous as it once was, as football is rigged now so that the big clubs are practically guaranteed the CL. Arsenal has been pretty bad the last few seasons while they rebuild, and they haven't come close to finishing "in the middle of the pack". Not to mention United have just gone through a couple trophyless seasons without any real affect on attendance.

They're deffo looking to sell to Oblomov.

It is dangerous because ticket sale are already dwindling due to increases and the acs. This will just drive people away further

Originally Posted by Stretlow

It is dangerous because ticket sale are already dwindling due to increases and the acs. This will just drive people away further

I don't wanna be accused of Glazer stoogery but I'm unaware of this. Have we not been selling every game out?

I'm no stooge either, the club is in a very stable financial position with profits significantly higher than previously. The debt is mangeable and if they are refinancing, as long as they don't increase borrowings, it will only be to get a better rate of interest thus ensuring lower payments of interest. Just like when you put your house up as collateral you get a better rate than an unsecured loan, I'd imagine that's why they are offering fiuture ticket sales as the guarantee.

People often compare this debt to buying a house, but i have owned two homes and each time the mortgage is set i make the payments and carry on, i dont go out and try to re-mortgage to try and get a better rate. The only time i would have to consider doing something like that was if i was struggling to make the mortgage payments though losing my job or something like that, which to me is when things are getting a bit desperate.

Originally Posted by Lou_Macari_Chippy

People often compare this debt to buying a house, but i have owned two homes and each time the mortgage is set i make the payments and carry on, i dont go out and try to re-mortgage to try and get a better rate. The only time i would have to consider doing something like that was if i was struggling to make the mortgage payments though losing my job or something like that, which to me is when things are getting a bit desperate.

Not really, I changed my mortgage last year because there was a better deal out there saving me over a £100 a month. I could easily afford the previous mortgage but wanted to look for another deal.
Why pay someone more than you have to, that makes no sense!

Such a transaction would not be very well received in the debt markets right now.

Originally Posted by Lou_Macari_Chippy

Glazers looking to re-finance the debt against future ticket sales.

Is this not a very dangerous game? when fergie retires we may not be the dominant force we are now and i suspect a few trophyless seasons where we finish middle of the pack could see a considerable drop in attendances then what does that mean?

The seem pretty desperate the way they keep coming back to this, i mean if the original plan was decent wouldnt they just stick to that?

How much longer do you think they are going to stick around for? they dont live in the UK, have to travel thousands of miles to get to the games, have the banks breathing down their necks and have interest piling up and are not even really interested in the sport. And yet if stories are to be believed they are not interested in selling up for a profit. Bizarre.


http://football.guardian.co.uk/Colum...src=rss&feed=5

What difference does Ferguson make?

Apparently, by the time the Glazers took control, and certainly after he told that bloke to go and support Chelsea, he was as good as finished anyway!

All this What happens when he retires and we start falling away from the top is just the alternative to saying he was finished. Now that we are champions again and playing better than ever with the best squad we've ever had the old What about when he retires? option is re-prioritised in the propoganda war.

Just to put a bit of meat on the bones, we currently have a 1st team coach who is increasingly aware of what it takes to stay on the ball at United. Quieroz has watched at first hand how Ferguson operates. he has the respect and trust of all the top players at United already. he is manifestly a major influence on the high quality - and ever-improving level - of our tactical nous and technical excellence. Right now, he is the man who can A/ extend Ferguson's career, and B/ ultimately ease the transition when Ferguson steps down.


As for the money games these people in the world of finance play? I'd rather play football.

Originally Posted by Lou_Macari_Chippy

People often compare this debt to buying a house, but i have owned two homes and each time the mortgage is set i make the payments and carry on, i dont go out and try to re-mortgage to try and get a better rate. The only time i would have to consider doing something like that was if i was struggling to make the mortgage payments though losing my job or something like that, which to me is when things are getting a bit desperate.

people often re-mortgage because the value of the house has gone up in value!

Originally Posted by Firswood Red

people often re-mortgage because the value of the house has gone up in value!

Why?

To use their houses as mew'ing cash machines?

The fall-out from the crash is going to financially cripple so many people.

Originally Posted by Lou_Macari_Chippy

each time the mortgage is set i make the payments and carry on, i dont go out and try to re-mortgage to try and get a better rate.

Why?

If you aren't on a wum then you're crazy mate.

Originally Posted by tatty

Why?

To use their houses as mew'ing cash machines?

The fall-out from the crash is going to financially cripple so many people.

you know full well why people re-mortgage.

Originally Posted by Lou_Macari_Chippy

People often compare this debt to buying a house, but i have owned two homes and each time the mortgage is set i make the payments and carry on, i dont go out and try to re-mortgage to try and get a better rate. The only time i would have to consider doing something like that was if i was struggling to make the mortgage payments though losing my job or something like that, which to me is when things are getting a bit desperate.

maybe that's why you are not a billionaire

just a thought

Originally Posted by Firswood Red

you know full well why people re-mortgage.

To pay for their new BMW and plasma screen TV?

I guess the reason i dont look for a better deal is because when i sign the mortgage i'm already confident that i'm getting the best deal. In the last 10 years i have had mortgages where i'm locked in for 10 years at 5% and 6% respectively - pretty hard to beat those rates - we looked around and that was the lowest rate available. If all of a sudden interest rates dropped to 2% then we may well consider a change but The glazers have only been a United for two seasons and other than the credit crunch which is a negative thing for them, interest rates etc have not changed that much since they bought the club. So i can only conclude that despite them telling us at the beginning that their business plan was sound, it seems that it couldnt be that sound or they wouldnt be trying to change it so quickly. I mean if this was 5 years or more down the track i probably wouldnt question it but the fact that basically since day one they have been trying to mess around and readjust the debt tells me that it's not just a matter of attempts at continual improvement.

On the part about ferguson retiring, i simply have no faith in @#%&!arse, i believe he was given a chance to drive things a few years ago as fergie took a back seat, the football was shite and the signings were shite. Since the glazers took over its my opinion that ferguson has been a lot more involved and has been the real driver behind the way they are playing etc. People think that @#%&!arse brought in ronaldo, nani and anderson but i remember it was the united players that buzzed fergie about ronaldo after playing against him. Nani and Anderson may have been recommended by @#%&!arse but thats just picking two players that a lot on here could have picked out - running a football team requires a lot more than buying a couple of decent young players, a lot more...

Football clubs have historically had their golden eras but it never lasts forever. Nobody would have thought that we would go twenty odd years without winning the league but we did and there were some periods where our crowds were dwinddling a bit, i remember being at games in the 80s that were not sold out and i think the supporters back then were more loyal that the supporters of today.

Anyway, to me, securing debt against ticket sales sounds like a recipe for disaster, sounds to me like we are risking one of our main long-term revenue streams so that the glazers can make money off us quicker. The way i see this is that if we fail to meet the debt payments the banks will be entitled to our ticket revenues and we'd basically be finished as a competitive football club - that is a risk thats not worth taking but its one the glazers are being forced into because they could never afford the club in the first place. If this goes though United fans should be outraged. Of course some will, but most wont give a shit and will dismiss it as the glazers being good businessmen and just simply trying their best to keep improving the situation. very sad IMO.

Originally Posted by Rex7

1. The banks aren't breathing down their necks- Zapata, their holding company has 1.3 billion in cash alone. They could pay it off if they wanted to. They aren't that desperate. (Btw, does everyone know that their company has ties to the CIA, Bush Sr, the Bay of Pigs, Watergate, and Iran Contra?)

2. They won't be around for very long, I'd suspect 3-5 years max. They are very interested in selling at a profit, its the only way you make money from a football club. They are banking on the PL making the same kind of jump the NFL did in the early 90's, when the value of teams jumped significantly.

3. Securitization isn't as dangerous as it once was, as football is rigged now so that the big clubs are practically guaranteed the CL. Arsenal has been pretty bad the last few seasons while they rebuild, and they haven't come close to finishing "in the middle of the pack". Not to mention United have just gone through a couple trophyless seasons without any real affect on attendance.

Christ someone who looks at facts, what a refreshing change!

FYI David Bowie securitized all his future earnings on songs and back catelogues, it was a very shrewd move, made a fortune. these guys know how to make money.

A few years ago is the key, though: Ferguson first introduced his players to the tactical and technical influence of Queiroz half a decade ago. Since his return from Madrid we have seen United's fortunes gradually rise season upon season to the point where we have become an exceptional team.

As for Ferguson taking a more hands on role again, well he possibly has. But it is precisely that that Quieroz should be benefitting from most of all; he has the chance to work at close quarters with imo the greatest manager in English football history (undeniably one of the greatest by anyone's standards.)

And let's not forget, Ferguson allowed Quieroz his chance at Madrid and still took him back in a heartbeat as soon as the opportunity arose. Whatever the true situation surrounding the spotting and signing of Anderson, Nani and Ronaldo is, I would guess that it would be unpalatable to the likes of yourself; United's scouting system monitored them all for a good few years is the truth. And that scouting system, so much maligned by people who really don't know what they are on about, certainly included Quieroz himself, and people he knows back in Portugal. To think otherwise would just be stupity itself.


On the subject of borrowing against future income I really do not know what the real situation inside the corridors of thingymajiggy at OT is. And I won't pretend I do. As such, it would be impossible to know whether or not it would be "a risk worth taking".

What I do think, however, is that every few weeks or so a journalist somewhere will bring this back into the news for a day or two. Rightly so, you may say. But it still doesn't tell us much does it.

What I do know for certain though, is that you saying If this goes through United fans should be outraged but most won't give a shit makes you look as if you think you are in the know. Trouble is, your posts in this thread haven't actually given us any more information than we already have. And we are not in the know. D'ya get me?!

Originally Posted by NYSalfordRed

FYI David Bowie securitized all his future earnings on songs and back catelogues, it was a very shrewd move, made a fortune. these guys know how to make money.

David Bowie is 60 and probably won't be around in 20 years.

How does that equate to Manchester United and what the Glazers are trying to do?

In fact, don't answer that.