Qatari Bid

Originally Posted by believe

We dominated football for 20 years because our resources were disproportionate to most of the other teams. It didn’t seem to bother us too much then.

I agree with your post though keithers and it would be nice if that was ever to be the case but it simply isn’t. My point is how does is affect anyone supporting the game. I watch games, I’m happy if they win, I’m upset when they lose. I don’t sit there for 90 minutes thinking about who owns us.

Edit: apart from this bit

But only disproportionate because we were the most successful football team which led to popularity - not because of our owners.

Most united fans have spent the last 10 years suggesting city’s success doesn’t really mean anything. Why is that and why do we want to join that club?

And yeah, I don’t want to be owned by an undemocratic brutalist state with a mindset stuck in the Middle Ages.

Originally Posted by shenwen

I'm not happy, especially when you look at the dysfunction that is PSG, but I also don't know what the alternative is. We are for sale. The Qataris will pay the price. That's how it works. We pass hands form one set of @#%&!s to another set of @#%&!s.

What can we do? Stop supporting? That's not going to happen, not for me anyway. Pretty awful though that we are going to be an expensive pice of advertising media for Qatar. Even worse is that we're going to be so much better at it than PSG ever were.

I suppose this is where the difference is for me though, I'm not just going to stop supporting like I'm turning off a switch, or just out of sheer principle. But it's got to the point where I legitimately think I'm just not going to be arsed anymore. Less turning off the lights, and more the light going out because the oil burnt dry. If we're bought out by the middle east, then what the £#%&! am I supporting anymore? The name and a badge? The legend that was Manchester United? For some people it makes no difference and all that remains still, but for me everything changes. I think Quayders and MNIK are on the same wavelength, everything about being used as a whitewashing, political tool is everything that's wrong with the world, not just football. Not everyone feels the same in their support of the club and that's fine, although that doesn't take away from the sheer hypocrisy that they've dished out over the years.

I think more fans will follow in the coming years as they slowly fall more and more out of love of modern football through sheer apathy.

If the sale goes through then for me everything about the club changes, and I don't think there's going to be enough to keep the light shining.

Originally Posted by believe

But you reply to every single post I make with the same comments. I’m worried I’m keeping you awake at night.

Do I yeah? Okay pal.

It was 7 in the morning btw. Woke up and he first thing I saw was the guy from Dubai who’s spent years defending the Glazers, telling everyone that ethics and morals are old fashioned, and there’s no legitimate reason to care where the money comes from as long as we’re financially secure, buying the best players and winning trophies.

That is absolutely fair enough if it’s your point of view, but to suggest everyone should feel the same is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Struggling to know where to begin with how wrong this post is. Tbf, it’s probably wrong for a romantic and dwindling number of us.

We’re a sports club at the end of the day. I want our success to be the result of our endeavours. The success this club has had from Busby to Ferie has been based on our own endeavours, not vast wealth derived from owning oil in the Middle East.

We want united to have a sensible level of debt or no debt at all - the position we had when the glazers bought us. So that our commercial success, built off our endeavours can be directed to ensuring the club maintained its status - not being spent on dividends and paying off eye watering interest bills.

We want to buy the best players we can afford to buy through the results of our endeavours. Not because of the owners sovereign wealth.

And surely we want football in general not to be dominated by a few clubs that have unlimited resources that are completely disproportionate to the rest of the league.

And lastly, why on Gods earth do we want to be owned by countries so opposed to the standards and ethics which we all live by?

If you had to choose between the Glazers and Qatar who are you picking?

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

We’re a sports club at the end of the day.

A sports club owned by...





Guess the ideal scenario would be for anybody that buys the club, via the business, to be altruistic AF and run in it in alignment with the fans.

Random questions: If Radcliffe was getting backed by the Qataris, would the sentiment be any different? What if they made Eric CEO?

Originally Posted by believe

We dominated football for 20 years because our resources were disproportionate to most of the other teams. It didn’t seem to bother us too much then.

That's a myth, between 92-99 our net spend was something ridiculous, like £50,000. Our spending increased leading up to Abramovich's takeover of Chelsea, but even then it wasn't drastically out of line with the rest of the league, and given our achievments, we probably should have invested more. Our success was built on that core of players coming through the academy, and some smart buys, we weren't blowing teams away with spending.

What difference being used as a sportswashing entity or a piggy bank for parasites whilst the world watches on?

It makes no difference when the powers that be or the press do not give 1 shiny shit about the football club, never have, never will.

The only people who care are the fans.

They all stopped giving a shite about us a long long long time ago.

England and the World had their chance to shame Qatar a couple of months ago. It's too late to moralise.

Looking forward to our rainbow away kit.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

I suppose this is where the difference is for me though, I'm not just going to stop supporting like I'm turning off a switch, or just out of sheer principle. But it's got to the point where I legitimately think I'm just not going to be arsed anymore. Less turning off the lights, and more the light going out because the oil burnt dry. If we're bought out by the middle east, then what the £#%&! am I supporting anymore? The name and a badge? The legend that was Manchester United? For some people it makes no difference and all that remains still, but for me everything changes. I think Quayders and MNIK are on the same wavelength, everything about being used as a whitewashing, political tool is everything that's wrong with the world, not just football. Not everyone feels the same in their support of the club and that's fine, although that doesn't take away from the sheer hypocrisy that they've dished out over the years.

I think more fans will follow in the coming years as they slowly fall more and more out of love of modern football through sheer apathy.

If the sale goes through then for me everything about the club changes, and I don't think there's going to be enough to keep the light shining.

Fair enough. Everyone’s different. Don’t think it’ll be the same for me. A bad taste in the mouth if I bother to stop and think about it, but I won’t stop watching. Too much already invested, including two kids

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

But only disproportionate because we were the most successful football team which led to popularity - not because of our owners.

Most united fans have spent the last 10 years suggesting city’s success doesn’t really mean anything. Why is that and why do we want to join that club?

And yeah, I don’t want to be owned by an undemocratic brutalist state with a mindset stuck in the Middle Ages.

100% agree, but that’s not how the world work sadly.

Your phone is built by kids barely on enough to eat in shit working conditions.

Your clothes are made in sweatshops.

The food you eat is sourced by people in abhorrent labour conditions .

You can’t claim to take the morale high ground on the Qatari ownership, when all these other injustices in the world are being ignored, some which you are actively contributing to .

Now my point here is , your phone, clothes, food, there is nothing we can do. We aren’t going to shut down sweatshops , we aren’t in a realistic position to source our food to make sure it comes from ethical areas same with our clothes.

If you genuinely felt bad towards the Qatari injustices, if they do purchase the club you would stop supporting them. You can’t claim to hate these vicious human right injustices but then turn a blind eye because you want to watch your favourite sport. Then it’s a case of entertainment trumps any human rights . You can accept it , realise realistically there’s absolute £#%&! all we can do and roll with it. Their track record of human rights is poor. I am agreeing with you.


You have to accept the fact that we can do nothing about it and that’s now the situation wrt to the Qataris. Of course you can hate the idea of them coming , you have every right . But to have such a ferocious backlash to this due to their human rights record and not towards others , you’re picking and choosing for when you’re angry towards injustices to people around the world .

Originally Posted by Sandman

That's a myth, between 92-99 our net spend was something ridiculous, like £50,000. Our spending increased leading up to Abramovich's takeover of Chelsea, but even then it wasn't drastically out of line with the rest of the league, and given our achievments, we probably should have invested more. Our success was built on that core of players coming through the academy, and some smart buys, we weren't blowing teams away with spending.

Yep…

https://twitter.com/4shaann/status/1625433693278937092?s=46&t=fQskjloEImbcjZE1ASf6yg

The sports washing will involve them improving in the areas they want to 'wash' and then using United for pr to show they've improved in those areas.

Would we rather they not improve and we just isolate them?

Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins

100% agree, but that’s not how the world work sadly.

Your phone is built by kids barely on enough to eat in shit working conditions.

Your clothes are made in sweatshops.

The food you eat is sourced by people in abhorrent labour conditions .

You can’t claim to take the morale high ground on the Qatari ownership, when all these other injustices in the world are being ignored, some which you are actively contributing to .

Now my point here is , your phone, clothes, food, there is nothing we can do. We aren’t going to shut down sweatshops , we aren’t in a realistic position to source our food to make sure it comes from ethical areas same with our clothes.

If you genuinely felt bad towards the Qatari injustices, if they do purchase the club you would stop supporting them. You can’t claim to hate these vicious human right injustices but then turn a blind eye because you want to watch your favourite sport. Then it’s a case of entertainment trumps any human rights . You can accept it , realise realistically there’s absolute £#%&! all we can do and roll with it. Their track record of human rights is poor. I am agreeing with you.


You have to accept the fact that we can do nothing about it and that’s now the situation wrt to the Qataris. Of course you can hate the idea of them coming , you have every right . But to have such a ferocious backlash to this due to their human rights record and not towards others , you’re picking and choosing for when you’re angry towards injustices to people around the world .

Worst argument ever.

"You haven't willingly given up all technology, and gone to live in a mud hut where you fashion your own clothing out of leaves and survive by eating fungus, so you're not allowed to have any morals or principles..."

Originally Posted by armchair

The sports washing will involve them improving in the areas they want to 'wash' and then using United for pr to show they've improved in those areas.

Would we rather they not improve and we just isolate them?

I'm glad we isloated SA during Apartheid (in the end).

Originally Posted by RedNick80

I'm glad we isloated SA during Apartheid (in the end).

Qatar seems a lot worse a country now that they may buy United. Before it was they aren't progressive and treat foreign workers badly. Now it's like Kim Jong-un is doing the bidding.

Originally Posted by armchair

Qatar seems a lot worse a country now that they may buy United. Before it was they aren't progressive and treat foreign workers badly. Now it's like Kim Jong-un is doing the bidding.

I woudn't go that far, they just aren't an ideal owner and its only now we are being forced to consider it.

I do understand people trying to excuse it or find reasons to accept it, after all anyone is better than the Glazers. Its a shit situation but we are here because of where football has ended up.

If a ME state takes over us then it'll just speed up my apathy sadly, but I won't try and make excuses for the owner if its a backward state. Be backward, do what you want in your own country but don't come and engage with our society if you don't want to be judged for what we perceive (rightly or wrongly) to be the right way to treat human beings.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Worst argument ever.

"You haven't willingly given up all technology, and gone to live in a mud hut where you fashion your own clothing out of leaves and survive by eating fungus, so you're not allowed to have any morals or principles..."

Doesn’t deter from the fact that you still actively paying towards products that exploit children and adult workers? I never once said you’re not allowed to have morals or principals. I said it will be picking and choosing those morals and principles which isn’t right.

The exploiting of workers and rights is ok aslong as you directly benefit?

You missed my point completely. I said we can’t realistically avoid being involved or contribute or being near to some form of human tragedy. Like supporting a club that is owned by the Qataris.

So basically you’re saying it’s ok to exploit workers and children so you can live your modern lifestyle? Isn’t that what the Qataris are doing? Spending billions on a World Cup to support their modern lifestyle and ignoring the countless deaths?

You literally proved my point, they’re doing exactly what you’re suggesting. If we can’t give up industries that exploit children and humans for the benefit of our own modern day lifestyles , why do you have any expectation on them too?

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Worst argument ever.

"You haven't willingly given up all technology, and gone to live in a mud hut where you fashion your own clothing out of leaves and survive by eating fungus, so you're not allowed to have any morals or principles..."

Not really.

Yes it’s a bit of whataboutery, but doesn’t necessarily make it a bad argument.

When you for example buy an apple phone or a Tesla car you are making an ethical decision as well as a commercial one. This might not be as obvious as thinking about Qatar buying United but it’s still there. What is happening in cobalt mines in the Congo is x times worse than anything happening in Qatar. We can choose to avoid this reality, and most of us do exactly that.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

But only disproportionate because we were the most successful football team which led to popularity - not because of our owners.

Most united fans have spent the last 10 years suggesting city’s success doesn’t really mean anything. Why is that and why do we want to join that club?

And yeah, I don’t want to be owned by an undemocratic brutalist state with a mindset stuck in the Middle Ages.

That's because they've quite clearly been cheating for the entire period. We wouldn't be joining that club because Man United wouldn't need fake sponsors, fake supporters and 2nd salaries into offshore accounts to attract staff.

All we need are owners who run the club competently and don't take money out of the club.

As long as the new owners manage that i couldn't give a £#%&! whether it's Jim Radcliffe, The Sultan of Brunei, Elon Musk or Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves.

Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins

Doesn’t deter from the fact that you still actively paying towards products that exploit children and adult workers? I never once said you’re not allowed to have morals or principals. I said it will be picking and choosing those morals and principles which isn’t right.

The exploiting of workers and rights is ok aslong as you directly benefit?

You missed my point completely. I said we can’t realistically avoid being involved or contribute or being near to some form of human tragedy. Like supporting a club that is owned by the Qataris.

So basically you’re saying it’s ok to exploit workers and children so you can live your modern lifestyle? Isn’t that what the Qataris are doing? Spending billions on a World Cup to support their modern lifestyle and ignoring the countless deaths?

You literally proved my point, they’re doing exactly what you’re suggesting. If we can’t give up industries that exploit children and humans for the benefit of our own modern day lifestyles , why do you have any expectation on them too?

Just because youv'e sold yourself that mechanism for absolving your own guilt for not caring (and thats all it is), doesn't mean anyone else should.

No-one can care about everything and be completely virtuous - so we should all not bother at all?