Erik Ten Hag - Keep or Sack? APRIL EDITION.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Think you’re looking at it the wrong way. The most effective midfielder we have is Mainoo. The most effective forward we have is Garnacho. Both offer more in seeing out difficult games than nearly every other player on the field. We had two matches which remain important to us - the first last Sunday and the second the final itself. Who gives a £#%&! if mainoo or nach are playing against sheff united tomorrow or Burnley at the weekend?

It’s poor game management.

They are young and need nurturing and are also the most important players we have so need protecting. Imagine going into the cup final without them...

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Not to go all Riccers, but Oldham were in the premier league. They went down that season.

.

VAR check re the 89-90 Cup final

succeeded by Joe Royle, who also had a 12-year spell in charge, during which time Oldham reached the League Cup final in 1990, before winning the Second Division title in 1990–91, which took them back into the top-flight for the first time in 68 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham_Athletic_A.F.C.

We trailed them too in that first game .. think it was when Irwin got noticed

Originally Posted by redhegemony

People moan about subbing Mainoo and Garnacho but he's handling them really well. We.need them fit and not £#%&!ed. Shouldn't need either to see that game out

It's not just one game, though. His selections when it cones to substitutions are often baffling.

No need to elaborate on game management.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Think you’re looking at it the wrong way. The most effective midfielder we have is Mainoo. The most effective forward we have is Garnacho. Both offer more in seeing out difficult games than nearly every other player on the field. We had two matches which remain important to us - the first last Sunday and the second the final itself. Who gives a £#%&! if mainoo or nach are playing against sheff united tomorrow or Burnley at the weekend?

It’s poor game management.

Not having this sorry. They're young players who need careful management, not flogging to death. If he'd left them on and they'd hobbled off injured he'd have got hammered for it.

There isn't a manager in the world who wouldn't take off two young players when 3-0 up with 19 minutes left against a lower division side that until that point hadn't remotely been in the game, to bring on an 80 million signing. Seeing that game out should have been an absolute breeze.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Not having this sorry. They're young players who need careful management, not flogging to death. If he'd left them on and they'd hobbled off injured he'd have got hammered for it.

There isn't a manager in the world who wouldn't take off two young players when 3-0 up with 19 minutes left against a lower division side that until that point hadn't remotely been in the game, to bring on an 80 million signing. Seeing that game out should have been an absolute breeze.

There also isn't a manager in the world at a top team that can't set up a team of internationals to close a game out. If he can't do that then he shouldn't be £#%&!ing about taking off his better players.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

There also isn't a manager in the world at a top team that can't set up a team of internationals to close a game out. If he can't do that then he shouldn't be £#%&!ing about taking off his better players.

You're so stupid....

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

There also isn't a manager in the world at a top team that can't set up a team of internationals to close a game out. If he can't do that then he shouldn't be £#%&!ing about taking off his better players.

Highly-paid pros shouldn't need someone else to 'set them up' to see out 20 minutes when 3-0 up against a Championship team. They should be able to take care of it themselves.

There's plenty to criticise ten Hag for and I think he's toast anyway, but on the pitch, the players are an absolute £#%&!ing joke. No leadership, mental strength or organisation whatsoever and repeated idiotic decisions, like Antony trying to shoot into a crowd of players with Dalot in acres of space right next to him, and Dalot charging hopelessly miles out of position leaving their winger unmarked. They're thick as £#%&!, mentally fragile cretins.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Highly-paid pros shouldn't need someone else to 'set them up' to see out 20 minutes when 3-0 up against a Championship team. They should be able to take care of it themselves.

There's plenty to criticise ten Hag for and I think he's toast anyway, but on the pitch, the players are an absolute £#%&!ing joke. No leadership, mental strength or organisation whatsoever and repeated idiotic decisions, like Antony trying to shoot into a crowd of players with Dalot in acres of space right next to him, and Dalot charging hopelessly miles out of position leaving their winger unmarked. They're thick as £#%&!, mentally fragile cretins.

They are. That’s why you don’t take your two best players off. Consistently your two best players off. Mainoo I can kind of get if really pushed but Nach rather than Rashford in another game in which Rashford might as well be warming his hands by a brazier wearing a donkey jacket and shouting scab at his teammates is just wrong. And Nach knows it’s wrong hence the signs of petulance. And the rest of the team knows it’s wrong and it works against ten hag.

20 mins or whatever it was in our only important match was nothing. Take Rashford off - put amad on. It’s £#%&!ing simple and obvious .

Originally Posted by Zorg

Highly-paid pros shouldn't need someone else to 'set them up' to see out 20 minutes when 3-0 up against a Championship team. They should be able to take care of it themselves.

There's plenty to criticise ten Hag for and I think he's toast anyway, but on the pitch, the players are an absolute £#%&!ing joke. No leadership, mental strength or organisation whatsoever and repeated idiotic decisions, like Antony trying to shoot into a crowd of players with Dalot in acres of space right next to him, and Dalot charging hopelessly miles out of position leaving their winger unmarked. They're thick as £#%&!, mentally fragile cretins.

I don't know what to tell you pal, my wife shouldn't leave her used contact lens next to the sink every day for 9 years when there's a bin two feet away. Full credit to the players, they haven't tried to hide any of their deficiencies this season in fact they've been on full view pretty much every week. You'd think it might have dawned on the person responsible for their performances not to take it for granted that thick as £#%&!, mentally fragile cretins might do what they pretty much always do regardless of the opposition but I guess we should be grateful he managed to stand their passively as our entire season was going up in flames.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Highly-paid pros shouldn't need someone else to 'set them up' to see out 20 minutes when 3-0 up against a Championship team. They should be able to take care of it themselves.

There's plenty to criticise ten Hag for and I think he's toast anyway, but on the pitch, the players are an absolute £#%&!ing joke. No leadership, mental strength or organisation whatsoever and repeated idiotic decisions, like Antony trying to shoot into a crowd of players with Dalot in acres of space right next to him, and Dalot charging hopelessly miles out of position leaving their winger unmarked. They're thick as £#%&!, mentally fragile cretins.

Fully agree that the majority of our players have an awful mentality, but at the same time surely it's the job of the manager to manage his players through a game of football. The players should have enough about them to see off a Championship team with a 3 goal lead and 20 minutes left, but if they don't then it has to be on the manager to pick up the slack and manage his players as best he can through the game.

It if it was a one-off then I don't think anyone would really care about the Sundays collapse. 'Fair play to Coventry for giving it a go, we were a bit lucky but got there in the end. The players need to get their act together for the next game etc etc'. But we've been throwing away games in a very similar fashion regularly, combined with the players looking like they have no idea what they're meant to be doing every game and the uninspiring team selections and substitutions... A hefty proportion of blame has to be shared by the manager.

Our players are performing shit. But they're not all completely shit players. Someone other than ETH could be getting a better tune out of most of them. Maybe not enough to be competing with Arsenal and Liverpool, but at least enough to compete with Aston Villa and Spurs. That should be the bare minimum and we're way off that this season.

He can't control what AWB and Dalot decide to do...we lack the ability to keep and control the ball because the players just aren't good enough which is why we see it time and time again.

It's a lack of quality that is costing us and a threadbare squad not the manager's game plan or instructions. We were playing a slow centre mid ar centre half because we have 5 injured

Originally Posted by redhegemony

He can't control what AWB and Dalot decide to do...we lack the ability to keep and control the ball because the players just aren't good enough which is why we see it time and time again.

It's a lack of quality that is costing us and a threadbare squad not the manager's game plan or instructions. We were playing a slow centre mid ar centre half because we have 5 injured

Even if there's absolutely no hope at the club for some of the players in the team because they are just not good enough, they are still being outplayed by players that are not as good as them.

We could probably buy all the Coventry players that appeared against us on Sunday with our summer budget, but I don't think that would make us a better team. AWB & Dalot would most likely still start ahead of any of those Coventry players.

So it has to be on the manager. The manager has to get the best out of the players in his team, even if those players have their own limitations. We're not going to be selling half of the squad and replacing them with superstars that could put in a consistent 8/10 regardless as who the manager is, so something has to give. Keeping ETH for next season would just be cutting off our nose to spite the face so we can just continue to blame the players for piss poor performances.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

He can't control what AWB and Dalot decide to do...we lack the ability to keep and control the ball because the players just aren't good enough which is why we see it time and time again.

It's a lack of quality that is costing us and a threadbare squad not the manager's game plan or instructions. We were playing a slow centre mid ar centre half because we have 5 injured

I’m not sure it’s fair to continually boil down the issues to individual player errors in the same way it’s not fair to always blame the manager for player errors. There is joint responsibility.

For a team like ours to be playing with such an incoherent approach at this stage of his second season is the failure that will get him sacked. It’s not even up for debate. The set up, tactics, subs are largely horrific - we’ve put a handful of good performances in all season. Our Coventry collapse was entirely typical of how we’ve played all season. What wasn’t typical was our initial dominance.

Keep finding excuses for failings isn’t helpful. It needs to change.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

He can't control what AWB and Dalot decide to do...we lack the ability to keep and control the ball because the players just aren't good enough which is why we see it time and time again.

It's a lack of quality that is costing us and a threadbare squad not the manager's game plan or instructions. We were playing a slow centre mid ar centre half because we have 5 injured

The easy counter argument is that there wasn't a single player in that Coventry team who would get into ours and most of the losses we have had this season are against teams with much weaker squads on paper. So how can it be lack of quality? At what point does the manager take some responsibility for you?

Originally Posted by shenwen

The easy counter argument is that there wasn't a single player in that Coventry team who would get into ours and most of the losses we have had this season are against teams with much weaker squads on paper. So how can it be lack of quality? At what point does the manager take some responsibility for you?

Coventry’s entire squad cost less than the arsewipe that cupped his ear towards them.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Coventry’s entire squad cost less than the arsewipe that cupped his ear towards them.

San Marino painters and decorators klaxon !!!!

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

San Marino painters and decorators klaxon !!!!

For 15 years we just gave the ball to scholes and he happily passed it around with short simple passes to take any sting out of games where the other team looked to be getting back into it. Mainoo can do this. Launching the ball forwards without hardly looking, or trying clever passes when just need to keep the ball is Sunday league level suicide.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

Think you’re looking at it the wrong way. The most effective midfielder we have is Mainoo. The most effective forward we have is Garnacho. Both offer more in seeing out difficult games than nearly every other player on the field. We had two matches which remain important to us - the first last Sunday and the second the final itself. Who gives a £#%&! if mainoo or nach are playing against sheff united tomorrow or Burnley at the weekend?

It’s poor game management.

Nah i'm not having that.

I don't disagree that they're 2 of our best players, but the 11 on the pitch were more than capable of holding on to a 3 nothing lead against a championship side for 20 minutes. I think there's quite a few players in the first team that simply don't want to be here and I'm currently of the position that he should be given the chance to cart them off. I won't do a full list as it's been done to death but Casemiro and Rashford were 2 of the worst culprits on Sunday.


Also, the reaction has been completely OTT. Like sparky said a scabby deflection and a penalty that was never a penalty. There was an element of bad luck involved. Same with the Chelsea game, a deflection and a penalty that never was.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the way we switch off, there obviously is and it needs sorting, but i'm more inclined to blame the players at this moment in time.

Ultimately however if he's "lost" a majority of the dressing room he's a gonner, cup or no cup.

Originally Posted by Hyman_Roth

I’m not sure it’s fair to continually boil down the issues to individual player errors in the same way it’s not fair to always blame the manager for player errors. There is joint responsibility.

For a team like ours to be playing with such an incoherent approach at this stage of his second season is the failure that will get him sacked. It’s not even up for debate. The set up, tactics, subs are largely horrific - we’ve put a handful of good performances in all season. Our Coventry collapse was entirely typical of how we’ve played all season. What wasn’t typical was our initial dominance.

Keep finding excuses for failings isn’t helpful. It needs to change.

Yeah, I agree with that tbf.

It's always the same debate, whether it's the players or the manager, and obviously it's both.

It's just that, in that specific game, we weren't 1-0 up against Arsenal or city or someone half decent. Then I'd agree taking those players off would have been insane, regardless of needing to manage them carefully. It was 3-0 against Coventry ffs.

With 15 minutes to go, we were 3-1 up and those players should not need any instruction from the bench whatsoever to see it out. They should be able to do it on their own without daddy telling them not to charge miles out of position. That's all I'm arguing. Not making excuses for ten Hag, because honestly I think on the rest you're right. It's been absolutely horrific, let's be honest, and if he's sacked I'm not going to care. In fact it's hard to believe how bad it's been at times.

I just don't know where we go from here because as we've all said a million times, the potential replacements are so poor.

Hard to believe how bad it's been.....

As we reach ANOTHER final....

Imagine being us....