Right-back incoming and not cheap

Originally Posted by sa7

He's been in this country for ten years. £#%&!ing lazy, thick, ignorant @#%&! boils my piss

(Valencia, not you)

Not a fan then

Originally Posted by Tiberian

I strongly disagree. Unfair on Valencia to lump him in with these 2, I despised him on the wing, but he has been ok for us at RB. Or maybe he just looks ok in comparison.

Rojo makes Jones look a calming force, sloppy on the ball, poor in the air, he might even be worse than Darmian.

Valencia should never have been anything more than a stop-gap measure. That the 'gap' has been so wide in an indictment on us - and Darmian I guess- not him. However, he is not good enough to be permanent right back for a team challenging for the highest honours.

Originally Posted by utd99

Valencia should never have been anything more than a stop-gap measure. That the 'gap' has been so wide in an indictment on us - and Darmian I guess- not him. However, he is not good enough to be permanent right back for a team challenging for the highest honours.

It depends on how we set up to a degree. If we play with a deeper line as Mourinho has generally favoured a more orthodox RB is essential, one who is not drawn out of position as easily as Valencia can be.

Fabinho seems to be one we are being linked with. Have seen very little of him, but he is 6"2 and I have read pieces comparing him to Ivanovic/Danilo. Also has the bonus of supposedly being adept in a defensive midfield role.

Ed basically giving up and letting Raiola and Mendes have free reign?

Be happy with Fabinho. Excellent player and still improving.

He's probably one of Mou' 49 list, too. He gave him 14 minutes in his season at Madrid

Originally Posted by sa7

He's been in this country for ten years. £#%&!ing lazy, thick, ignorant @#%&! boils my piss

(Valencia, not you)

In fairness to Valencia he grew up in some village on the Amazon and I read he was illiterate when he arrived in England. Perfecting the langauge was always going to be a big ask. Incredible where the guy has come from.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

It depends on how we set up to a degree. If we play with a deeper line as Mourinho has generally favoured a more orthodox RB is essential, one who is not drawn out of position as easily as Valencia can be.

Fabinho seems to be one we are being linked with. Have seen very little of him, but he is 6"2 and I have read pieces comparing him to Ivanovic/Danilo. Also has the bonus of supposedly being adept in a defensive midfield role.

I just don't get how anyone who has watched Valencia over any decent period of time can be happy with him as first choice under any circumstances. His limited technique and lack of intelligence are just woeful. If being quick, strong and hard working is enough these days we may as well stick Usain Bolt back there. He's been begging for a run out for years.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

In fairness to Valencia he grew up in some village on the Amazon and I read he was illiterate when he arrived in England. Perfecting the langauge was always going to be a big ask. Incredible where the guy has come from.

Other thing is that if they don't want to, they don't need to interact with anyone outside the club at all. They'll have someone to do the shopping, pay the bills, take the kids everywhere etc. Get the feeling he's taken that option more often than not.

Originally Posted by Grimson

Other thing is that if they don't want to, they don't need to interact with anyone outside the club at all. They'll have someone to do the shopping, pay the bills, take the kids everywhere etc. Get the feeling he's taken that option more often than not.

He's interacted with a few on Skype iirc

Btw according to Wiki Valencia's first contract with Nacional was for 50 dollars a month.

Doubt he beats himself up about he language.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

He's interacted with a few on Skype iirc

Btw according to Wiki Valencia's first contract with Nacional was for 50 dollars a month.

Doubt he beats himself up about he language.

There's really no excuse though, is there? Not after all this time, and the little matter of being able to communicate properly with your team mates. Growing up in poverty has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

It seems he has treated learning the language in much the same way he has treated learning to kick with his left.

Originally Posted by utd99

I just don't get how anyone who has watched Valencia over any decent period of time can be happy with him as first choice under any circumstances. His limited technique and lack of intelligence are just woeful. If being quick, strong and hard working is enough these days we may as well stick Usain Bolt back there. He's been begging for a run out for years.

On the wing I would agree entirely. Those problems in his game have been less pronounced at RB, with some notably awful exceptions.

You are right though, ideally he would not be starting in a top team, if the likes of Nani and Rafael had not fallen away for various reasons he might already have been moved on, worth keeping around this season as a good squad option though, need some stability among the playing group.

Originally Posted by utd99

There's really no excuse though, is there? Not after all this time, and the little matter of being able to communicate properly with your team mates. Growing up in poverty has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

It seems he has treated learning the language in much the same way he has treated learning to kick with his left.

He communicates fine with his teammates. He's just not confident trying to speak English to the media.

Agree about the left foot though.

Originally Posted by utd99

There's really no excuse though, is there? Not after all this time, and the little matter of being able to communicate properly with your team mates. Growing up in poverty has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

It seems he has treated learning the language in much the same way he has treated learning to kick with his left.

English is a tough language to learn. Much more than Spanish, for example.

I reckon if you grew up illiterate in a hut in the Amazon forest you might find it tricky to learn new languages.

He might speak it okay but not want to do TV interviews in it. I'm not arsed tbh; he seems a popular lad.

hard to see how anyone who claims to know football can look at valencia and question his "limited" technique. he can take the ball in from all angles and away from a challenge. can turn out of a challenge. can protect the ball very well. he has an great shot on him. he has a full array of crosses (even if he rarely uses his full repertoire). he can head the ball. he has a great right foot. as far as technique goes his only real weakness is that he's one footed. but he's hardly alone in that and many top class professionals have the same issue.

technique is not a problem for valencia in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

hard to see how anyone who claims to know football can look at valencia and question his "limited" technique. he can take the ball in from all angles and away from a challenge. can turn out of a challenge. can protect the ball very well. he has an great shot on him. he can head the ball. he has a great right foot. as far as technique goes his only real weakness is that he's one footed. but he's hardly alone in that and many top class professionals have the same issue.

technique is not a problem for valencia in the slightest.

I agree, because early in his career crossing wasn't an issue for him. His problems seem more mental, in terms of taking safer or easier options. Has one of the best first touches at the club. Still the most frustrating player we have imo, he should be burning opposition full-backs.

All things going well Fabinho should be an upgrade.

Good news if ture. Will only leave us needing a centre back, a central midfielder and a striker, but at least we're getting there.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

hard to see how anyone who claims to know football can look at valencia and question his "limited" technique. he can take the ball in from all angles and away from a challenge. can turn out of a challenge. can protect the ball very well. he has an great shot on him. he can head the ball. he has a great right foot. as far as technique goes his only real weakness is that he's one footed. but he's hardly alone in that and many top class professionals have the same issue.

technique is not a problem for valencia in the slightest.

He is an odd one, his first touch is exceptional, his short passing game is excellent but he is chronically lacking imagination and variation in his game.

He has barely developed his game through his entire Utd career, plays in the exact same manner he always has. Used to drive me mad on the wing, pace and running power but his off the ball movement was so conservative, the goal threat he could have been if he had been encouraged to attack the back post rather than stay widesmh:

Originally Posted by Tiberian

He is an odd one, his first touch is exceptional, his short passing game is excellent but he is chronically lacking imagination and variation in his game.

He has barely developed his game through his entire Utd career, plays in the exact same manner he always has. Used to drive me mad on the wing, pace and running power but his off the ball movement was so conservative, the goal threat he could have been if he had been encouraged to attack the back post rather than stay widesmh:

What we are establishing in this thread is that Toño isn't very good at learning new things. Except Skype.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

hard to see how anyone who claims to know football can look at valencia and question his "limited" technique. he can take the ball in from all angles and away from a challenge. can turn out of a challenge. can protect the ball very well. he has an great shot on him. he has a full array of crosses (even if he rarely uses his full repertoire). he can head the ball. he has a great right foot. as far as technique goes his only real weakness is that he's one footed. but he's hardly alone in that and many top class professionals have the same issue.

technique is not a problem for valencia in the slightest.

For some reason you are blind when it comes to Valencia.

First of all he doesn't even have the option to address the ball in an emergency if it falls on his left, as proven by some of the bizarre contortions he has pulled off in the past in an attempt to avoid it. It would be funny, except that the denoument is the utter inability to cut inside, resulting in either a dash to the byline or a knock back. Valencia is meat and drink to any decent fullback. That cannot be a good thing for any team. And how many times does this devastating repertoir of crosses he supposedly possesses actually result in him completing one? Wake up, he has one- low and hard- over and over again.

He is excellent at controlling long diagonals, and can shield a ball well. Unfortunately something usually needs to happen after you've done that. And what is the relevance of citing other professionals weaknesses in mitigation of Valencia? We are talking about him, not them. Can you really defend a wide player for whom cutting inside and either crossing or shooting is never, ever an option? Not once...

valencia is not just technically and physically highly capable but also tactically. he's a manager's dream in all those respects - they pretty much know that they can give him a specific role and he will carry it out as near to the letter as possible...

his weaknesses are that he seems to lack vision and awareness, that he doesn't always adjust to the game positionally and that he lacks imagination. it's the thinking part that does the most damage to his confidence.

i think he will be a valuable player for mourinho, [if a RB comes in than] as a squad player down the right and especially as a sub when we're playing mourinho football, seeing out a game or keeping an opponent in their box.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

What we are establishing in this thread is that Toño isn't very good at learning new things. Except Skype.

and yet along with the likes of young he was one of the quickest to learn what LVG wanted and one of the best at executing it.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

valencia is not just technically and physically highly capable but also tactically. he's a manager's dream in all those respects - they pretty much know that they can give him a specific role and he will carry it out as near to the letter as possible...

his weaknesses are that he seems to lack vision and awareness, that he doesn't always adjust to the game positionally and that he lacks imagination. it's the thinking part that does the most damage to his confidence.

i think he will be a valuable player for mourinho, [if a RB comes in than] as a squad player down the right and especially as a sub when we're playing mourinho football, seeing out a game or keeping an opponent in their box.

If Fabinho comes then surely the inclination would be to prioritise Mensah as his understudy? Especially if Tuanzebe is getting a CB push.

Valencia, for his faults and the criticism, has had a good career at United, but maybe now the time to wind it down.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

valencia is not just technically and physically highly capable but also tactically. he's a manager's dream in all those respects - they pretty much know that they can give him a specific role and he will carry it out as near to the letter as possible...

his weaknesses are that he seems to lack vision and awareness, that he doesn't always adjust to the game positionally and that he lacks imagination. it's the thinking part that does the most damage to his confidence.

Ok, so he's strong and quick, works hard and tries to follow orders. However he lacks vision, awareness of what's going on around him, is poor positionally and in other aspects of the game that require thought. All we need to do now is agree that he utterly lacks the technical ability to go left and do anything creative or meaningful and I think we can finally put this ridiculous debate to bed.

Phew.