Hillsborough inquiry

Originally Posted by Argentina

Hypothetically, say every single fan was blind drunk. So what? The police cover up is atrocious and demonstrates a view of football fans as second class citizens.

Football has gone down the pan because of things like this, where the police are allowed to dictate to us. Happy clappy families are inserted where singing intoxicated fans should be. Clubs love it because revenue increases from popcorn and coca-cola sales, prices go up and you and I sit in the pub (or worse, on here) watching the game we've been priced out of.
Police are allowed to ban people for swearing, spurs fans calling themselves hide and regular a fans singing about someone being a bit *****.

Meanwhile, scousers can't see the wood from the trees and oppose safe standing at every turn. If they weren't to blame, then standing isn't the problem, it's the policing. The mind boggles.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I agree to a degree but the police shoulder by far the largest part of responsibility in my view. Most on here seem hung up that the scousers should accept the blame or at least some part of it. Fair enough but it's deliberately missing the real issue or at least conveniently focussing on a fairly incidental one.

Would the disaster had happened if fans were tee total? - yes in my view. Would the disaster have happened if the police had taken some really obvious and simple crowd control steps? - not a chance.

The culpability of the police is best evidenced by the fraudulent duplicitous steps they took to fabricate evidence and create the sense that the fans were to blame.

None of this gets away from the Japanese water torture that the scousers employ on hillsborough but don't let your prejudice affect the truth.

Spot on as they say.

What gets me is some scousers (probably those shouting loudest and not the majority tbf) rally against the previous bent verdicts yet want a bent verdict themselves.

Tough questions will need to be asked publicly which they seem scared of. Heysel was less than 3 years prior; many of the coppers on duty that day will have had that fresh in their minds. These things need to be out in the open, considered, and then ruled upon, rather than brushed under the carpet so that the dippers can be vindicated and then spend the next 25 years telling everyone about how they're victims.

Originally Posted by Switching Off

Spot on as they say.

What gets me is some scousers (probably those shouting loudest and not the majority tbf) rally against the previous bent verdicts yet want a bent verdict themselves.

Tough questions will need to be asked publicly which they seem scared of. Heysel was less than 3 years prior; many of the coppers on duty that day will have had that fresh in their minds. These things need to be out in the open, considered, and then ruled upon, rather than brushed under the carpet so that the dippers can be vindicated and then spend the next 25 years telling everyone about how they're victims.

A £#%&!ing men.

This is the big problem.

The dippers have to admit their culpability in the most high profile disaster caused by hooliganism as the reason the police acted towards them the way they did. It does not excuse it, but goes some way to explaining how it happened.

The police, FA and stewards all treated the fans like sub-human scum and Heysel was a major factor in their mind-set.

Until the scousers admit this they can £#%&! right off.

Whilst again not excusing anything the police did or didn't do.

Football fans reputations were not undeserved at that point in time, clearly ourselves included.

The scousers themselves lauded in tales of looting their fashion on foreign shores and on a more serious level there is of course Heysel too.

Again, not excusing corrupt, conspiring police, but do remember what football was like then.

Not being funny - are there figures for how many people were in the ground? I looked up our 78 cup final earlier, the attendance was 55,000 and it felt absolutely rammed, admittedly I was only 11 but regardless of what happened 11 years later it is a game that sticks in my mind as a bit 'hairy'

Always enjoy these £#%&! the dead scouters posts
Look forward to them as much as the February 6th griefathon

Stuck for a birthday cake for your kids birthday, never fear

Originally Posted by HERTS_RED

Stuck for a birthday cake for your kids birthday, never fear

Tasteful.

I hope it's laced with cyanide.

I don't remember a MurkeyDive derby that finished 9-6

Originally Posted by dunk

I don't remember a MurkeyDive derby that finished 9-6

Sure as £#%&! not while Moyeseh was there.

The police should be £#%&!ed for it. However they should only be allowed comp if they individually and publicly accept that some pissed up ticketless @#%&!s only added to the problem and should share some responsibility. Anyone with there fingers crossed gets nothing.

I see that £#%&!ing old wicked witch Margaret Aspinall was on TV today promoting Griefmania XXV. It's not just for the people of Liverpool she cackled, its for everyone she said in a threatening manner whilst staring into the screen, wide eyed and without blinking.

ffs, its over two months away, Utd commemorated Munich on Sunday with a simple minutes silence (well, that was the plan, £#%&!ing Moyes fault again) and that was that.

These £#%&!ing freaks on the other hand......

the reality of hillsborough is that the police covered their own arses for what happened between the disaster actually occurring and the authorities realising how serious it was as it unfolded

what actually caused it is squarely on the shoulders of the way football, football supporters and police co-existed at that time. it baffles me how anyone who went to football in those days can pretend football supporters were the victims of that relationship more than the cause of it.

They don't want justice or truth they want the compo.

Originally Posted by Crumps

They don't want justice or truth they want the compo.

imo they want none of those things, what they want is an never ending pity party

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the reality of hillsborough is that the police covered their own arses for what happened between the disaster actually occurring and the authorities realising how serious it was as it unfolded

what actually caused it is squarely on the shoulders of the way football, football supporters and police co-existed at that time. it baffles me how anyone who went to football in those days can pretend football supporters were the victims of that relationship more than the cause of it.

Nah. Your point is correct but its irrelevant to this. All the police had to do was delay the kick off - something that was regularly done at the time.

Originally Posted by armchair

imo they want none of those things, what they want is an never ending pity party

exactly. i'd love someone to explain at what point they would consider justice was done, and it was time to move on. check the mission statement of the HJC.

The Hillsborough Justice Campaign was formed in response to the belief of a substantial number of people who were involved in the disaster, that after more than nine years and having many judicial decisions ruled against them, a fresh approach was needed in the fight to achieve proper Justice. The Constitution of the membership is reflected in the Group's name and it follows that the Organisation is broad-based.

1) To pursue Justice for those 96 people who died in the Hillsborough Stadium Disaster of 1989, the bereaved Families, the Survivors who came perilously close to dying in Pens 3 and 4 and those unfortunate people still suffering from the ensuing trauma of the Disaster.

(2) To recruit members to the Organisation for the purpose of raising support for the Justice Campaign

(3) To raise funds for the furtherance of the Justice Campaign

basically a load of fluff to pad out one word...'Justice' (don't forget the capital J ) and no effort to define what they think that means, so they can carry this %@#$&!s on indefinitely.

Yeah, it's a nice sexy "cause" they can make a big song and dance about because it makes them feel like they belong. It's like a cult.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Nah. Your point is correct...

it is

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

but its irrelevant to this. All the police had to do was delay the kick off - something that was regularly done at the time.

your point is with the benefit of hindsight. at that moment in that ground on that day there was no reason to assume people were actually going to die until they actually started to die

the alternative to opening the gates was to have a typical football crowd scene outside the ground

at the end of the day there were various crowd management and operational errors and breakdowns, but were there any more than normal at big games with late crowd crushes? I doubt it, and the empty spaces on the paddock should show that there was no actual need to delay the kick-off had there been the correct policing on the other side of the gate - that crowd surge needed policing, not stewarding.

Originally Posted by Pop

I see that £#%&!ing old wicked witch Margaret Aspinall was on TV today promoting Griefmania XXV. It's not just for the people of Liverpool she cackled, its for everyone she said in a threatening manner whilst staring into the screen, wide eyed and without blinking.

ffs, its over two months away, Utd commemorated Munich on Sunday with a simple minutes silence (well, that was the plan, £#%&!ing Moyes fault again) and that was that.

These £#%&!ing freaks on the other hand......

Applied for your tickets?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

it is



your point is with the benefit of hindsight. at that moment in that ground on that day there was no reason to assume people were actually going to die until they actually started to die

the alternative to opening the gates was to have a typical football crowd scene outside the ground

at the end of the day there were various crowd management and operational errors and breakdowns, but were there any more than normal at big games with late crowd crushes? I doubt it, and the empty spaces on the paddock should show that there was no actual need to delay the kick-off had there been the correct policing on the other side of the gate - that crowd surge needed policing, not stewarding.

It's not with the benefit of hindsight, I thought so at the time. It was really quite simple. There were still 1,000's of fans outside approaching 3pm with turnstiles unable to process enough people through prior to kick off. The fact that there were empty pens inside and 1000's outside is surely justification for delaying kick off.

An announcement to delay kick off by 10-15 mins would have immediately alleviated pressure on the turnstiles and avoided the police's inexplicable decision to open the £#%&!ing exit gates. What on earth they thought would happen when they did that is beyond me and why they didn't communicate that to officers at the front of the terraces who were still battoning fans from escaping is again, anyone's guess.

In short, it was fairly easily avoidable but each and every decision the police made was devastatingly wrong.