Hillsborough inquiry

Originally Posted by dragflick

Dukinfield Reds banner for Sunday?

('Tameside branch' in very small writing underneath)

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

No argument that it's worth considering all the contributing factors that influenced the tragedy but don't do so at the expense of ignoring the one overriding factor that caused it and equally, the failings of the authorities to take very simple steps on the day to avoid it. The authorities went to considerable lengths to cover up their failings of that day but never mind that, the concrete on the terraces was spalling.

Agreed with all of this. I daren't say it to throb but just delay the kick off?

We know about the cover up mate - that's a given and accepted all round. It's the bit that is deliberately ignored.

It was the behaviour that came first.

Hate to break this to you pal, but those lovely Scallies wouldn't be running around shouting "listen, calm down la, they've delayed the kick off" and stopped the pushing. Pushing was their best hope of getting in. You're assuming they were decent fans like the poor sods who died.

incidentally this would seem to be a very good account of what went wrong outside the ground from an onlooker's perspective:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...-kickoff-delay

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

We know about the cover up mate - that's a given and accepted all round. It's the bit that is deliberately ignored.

It was the behaviour that came first.

Hate to break this to you pal, but those lovely Scallies wouldn't be running around shouting "listen, calm down la, they've delayed the kick off" and stopped the pushing. Pushing was their best hope of getting in.

I started going in 1978 and regularly went to anfield and most of our other away matches throughout the 80's - I know exactly what supporters were like. In fact, I used to be a bit of dick myself.

Delaying the kick off would have alleviated the pressure on the turnstiles. It would have allowed the police to regain greater control of the situation and manage the crowd both in and outside the ground. You would still have had jibbers trying to get in but the rest would have relaxed back assured that they would get in. I've been outside pressurised turnstiles when ko's have been delayed and seen first hand how the pressure quickly dissipates.

Anyway zzzzzzzzzzzz

Duckenfield's admission the other day is important i think, namely that he felt weak by openly saying he was psychologically affected by what happened. I think there were also power struggles on the day, with a novice match commander not wanting guidance and advice, and the bloke controlling outside swapping roles etc - I would suggest this betrays the culture in the police force at that time (probably now too).

Forget delaying the kick-off as a strategic decision, and think about it as a stubborn pre-determined attitude not to do so except as the absolute last resort in this case. This clearly proved to be just such a time with hindsight, of course. But in real time it perhaps seemed like a solution to stop the scousers' behaviour, not to prevent 96 of them dying. I would guess that these coppers maybe just thought £#%&! the @#%&!s, let them miss the start. I'm speculating.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I started going in 1978 and regularly went to anfield and most of our other away matches throughout the 80's - I know exactly what supporters were like. In fact, I used to be a bit of dick myself.

Delaying the kick off would have alleviated the pressure on the turnstiles. It would have allowed the police to regain greater control of the situation and manage the crowd both in and outside the ground. You would still have had jibbers trying to get in but the rest would have relaxed back assured that they would get in. I've been outside pressurised turnstiles when ko's have been delayed and seen first hand how the pressure quickly dissipates.

Anyway zzzzzzzzzzzz

I understand your theory mate but y'know.......lots of should'ves all round

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

incidentally this would seem to be a very good account of what went wrong outside the ground from an onlooker's perspective:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...-kickoff-delay

Interesting bit from that:

Marshall said supporters had been drinking before the match to a degree which amounted to abusing alcohol, and that they were “pushing and shoving” outside Leppings Lane to “get into the ground come what may.”

Wonder how that will be accepted by the scousers given that it is part of a very open account of what happened?