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Unread 03-05-2019, 08:46 AM
windy waffles
 
Thumbs up Interesting article from The Verge about the Boeing 737-Max

And all of it's problems.

Long read but well worth it.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18...an-error-mcas-
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 08:52 AM
waynes ear's
 
Default

save you the effort

Quote:
In bland technical jargon, Boeing described the exact series of events that brought down PK-LQP. The confusing series of alerts. The sudden dives. The fact that this “failure condition” would keep occurring until and unless the crew flipped the STAB TRIM switches to CUT OUT — just like the crew on PK-LQP’s penultimate flight had correctly guessed.

The presence of this system, lurking somewhere in the Max’s software suite, was shocking enough. Even more frightening, Boeing only gave the bare minimum of information to airlines and pilots. The bulletin didn’t give the system a name or explain what it was designed to do in normal operation. It only said that sometimes it malfunctions, and that can crash your airplane.


good read though
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 09:28 AM
red red robbo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waynes ear's
save you the effort





good read though
Fucking shocking state of affairs. Someone should go to prison for allowing this to happen.

EDIT: Just read it, it was interesting and exactly what my understanding of the the sequence of events was. I have to take issue with a couple of things in the article though.

Quote:
In a strange way, the 737 Max’s story is less about what did happen and more about what didn’t. Nobody did anything criminal. Nobody did anything malicious. Nobody did anything wrong, in a strictly technical sense.
I'll agree it wasn't malicious, but it was wrong and it was almost certainly illegal (at least it would have been in the UK and I bet the US as well).

The design of MCAS was poor. It didn't correctly categorise the risk according to the available data, it didn't follow the design recommendation for the risk level it was classified as and then it didn't adhere to the rules it was set according to its classification. They are all serious failures of the design team and should have been picked up by Boeing's internal quality procedures. Then there is the regulatory oversight carried out by the FAA which failed to identify there was a system they had been told nothing about.

Secondly there's an inconsistency

Quote:
Yet this document dedicated to minutiae does not mention MCAS once — not by name, not by description — which is kind of astonishing when you consider that even the seat belts get a mention.

The FAA overlooked MCAS in other places, too.
Quote:
MCAS received a “hazardous failure” designation. This meant that, in the FAA’s judgment, any kind of MCAS malfunction would result in, at worst, “a large reduction in safety margins” or “serious or fatal injury to a relatively small number of the occupants.”
Did the FAA overlook it or not?

Last edited by red red robbo; 03-05-2019 at 10:40 AM.
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 12:14 PM
windy waffles
 
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One of the flights dived 20 times apparently. Must've been utterly terrifying.

Sending out a two page bulletin to tell pilots how to avoid basically dying was outrageous. Should have been grounded after the first flight which managed to land.
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 12:24 PM
Albert Tatlock
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by windy waffles
One of the flights dived 20 times apparently. Must've been utterly terrifying.

Sending out a two page bulletin to tell pilots how to avoid basically dying was outrageous. Should have been grounded after the first flight had the problem.
Fixed it for you
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 04:32 PM
windy waffles
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Tatlock
Fixed it for you
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 04:49 PM
waynes ear's
 
Default

thick as pigshit
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 05:10 PM
Albert Tatlock
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waynes ear's
thick as pigshit
He's not the crispest waffle in the biscuit barrel is he ?
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 05:33 PM
Rorschach
 
Default

MCAS was brought in to ensure the 737Max had the same handling characteristics as previous iterations of the 737, so that pilots would not need retraining and they could get a single type rating certificate.

Without MCAS, the more powerful, higher and forward mounted engines would have meant sufficiently different characteristics that a whole new certification and training programme would have been required. At significant cost.

MCAS was intended to be a background handling augmentation system, hence the lack of overt warning/training but the moment they found the jack-screw had been sent to the full-on-dive position in 1 of the crashes they knew they'd fucked up and grounded the fleet.

New MCAS will be limited, take input from *both* angle of attack indicators and be disabled is there's a variation above x% in the 2 indicators' readings. Something anyone with a passing interest in aviation would probably expect as standard all along.

How the system was designed this way and the FAA allowed this system to pass is anyone's guess but there's probably a clue in the above somewhere.
 
Unread 03-05-2019, 07:11 PM
TravellingRed
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach

New MCAS will be limited, take input from *both* angle of attack indicators and be disabled is there's a variation above x% in the 2 indicators' readings. Something anyone with a passing interest in aviation would probably expect as standard all along.

How the system was designed this way and the FAA allowed this system to pass is anyone's guess but there's probably a clue in the above somewhere.
I read an interesting article about all the cost savings that were ruining Boeings aviation pedigree, usual story; the whole operation used to be based in Seattle, engineering people from top to bottom, execs on reasonable wages and lived in the city, a sense of pride in the whole outfit. Then they moved the HQ to Chicago to be nearer financiers and Wall Street types, more factories in the deep South where the workers where on less pay with worse ts&cs, no union etc. The $$$ above all else basically.
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