LVG talks about his philosophy

Originally Posted by Crumps

It's most used used by #@&%!s having snide digs. Nothing to do with what language LVG speaks either.

Defensive

Originally Posted by andyroo

Yeah it was a silly comparison. I think someone (Jammers Dodgers?) was trying to make the point that this attacking football everyone says they want to see isn't just a matter of willpower. Or conversely that van Gaal isn't out to harsh our buzz just to spite us like some of these antis seem to think.

That's certainly the point I was making, that it's more than just what you want as a manager, it's the skill and patience to do it.

LvG is a huge personality, so it's easy to assume that everything out on the pitch is a reflection of what he wants to see. So while he may believe (like most of the modern attacking managers) that the way to break down a low block defensive team is to move the ball side to side to disrupte them and look for space, it doesn't mean that he's happy with the tempo (we're clearly doing it too slow at times, which renders it pointless) nor does it mean that the team have found the balance between that and a more direct style when space is there.

But that's part of the process of building a team, something Giggs and his mates could have seen when they took over and witnesses such dire performances despite the intent to attack. It also requires the right players. Around 23 years ago United were on the verge of a first league title in over a quarter of a century. Except they weren't. They were mid-table halfway through November and struggling to score goals. Then Cantona. That was the spark. We may just need to find ours. It could be that simple.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

So, we can judge Giggs and his potential quality as a manager on 4 games? Oh, and an edited tv programme.

The squad he had, was it the talented but under achieving group that Moyes wasted or the pile of irradiated shite that LVG inherited?

The narrative at the time was it was a title winning team being stifled by moyes' training and tactics. In which case Giggs and scholes, with their super commitment to exciting football and the united way, should have had no trouble getting that team to produce a big improvement over moyes.

You can't judge Giggs on those 4 games, but it should have given Giggs and scholes an insight into it not being so simple to get a team playing exciting, attacking football. Given that experience and the fact Van gaal was 14 months into a huge rebuilding job, scholes whinging about ten football was a disgrace. Purely designed to heap pressure on van gaal and trigger the underlying current simmering below the surface of the support, much as he kicked it off with moyes whilst the co92 were plotting behind the scenes.

It really can't be good for spirit behind the scenes to have the assistant's best mates publicly slagging off the manager. It's laughably transparent.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

The narrative at the time was it was a title winning team being stifled by moyes' training and tactics. In which case Giggs and scholes, with their super commitment to exciting football and the united way, should have had no trouble getting that team to produce a big improvement over moyes.

You can't judge Giggs on those 4 games, but it should have given Giggs and scholes an insight into it not being so simple to get a team playing exciting, attacking football. Given that experience and the fact Van gaal was 14 months into a huge rebuilding job, scholes whinging about ten football was a disgrace. Purely designed to heap pressure on van gaal and trigger the underlying current simmering below the surface of the support, much as he kicked it off with moyes whilst the co92 were plotting behind the scenes.

It really can't be good for spirit behind the scenes to have the assistant's best mates publicly slagging off the manager. It's laughably transparent.

The Machiavellian CO92, too stupid to possibly risk in charge of the club, but devious enough to plan and execute a coup from within.

Maybe they are just unwitting pawns of Peter Lim, or maybe Scholes is calling the football boring and slow because it is boring and slow.

I dunno whether there's an active attempt, subconscious or otherwise, from the CO92 to undermine the manager for their own gains. That's a strong statement. But it's patently clear that the criticisms from Scholes do just that. Scholes hasn't just assessed the entertainment value (an issue he's quite inconsistent on, btw). He is persistently taking shots at the manager's methods.

Whether you agree with him or not, when the assistant and key member of the staff is one of his childhood friends, business partner and someone he continues to advertise that he spends plenty of time with, to me that's a pretty unhealthy situation. It has to be.

It's totally unhealthy for Giggs to be involved at all - especially given the mafia like status the Co92 now seem to have. They'll be into running numbers rackets and skimming casino takes next.

The Nevbino crime family with Don 'make sure you charge them 39 p for tea' Garyeone at the head.

As tbs says, all goes away if we start playing decent stuff. Well the criticism will, unfortunately Gary isn't likely to.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I dunno whether there's an active attempt, subconscious or otherwise, from the CO92 to undermine the manager for their own gains. That's a strong statement. But it's patently clear that the criticisms from Scholes do just that. Scholes hasn't just assessed the entertainment value (an issue he's quite inconsistent on, btw). He is persistently taking shots at the manager's methods.

Whether you agree with him or not, when the assistant and key member of the staff is one of his childhood friends, business partner and someone he continues to advertise that he spends plenty of time with, to me that's a pretty unhealthy situation. It has to be.

so siders what are you saying is that since giggs is assistant manager at united, scholes/neville et al shouldn't be pundits or shouldn't be giving honest opinions? Whether they are actually honest or not is a very subjective thought and either way nobody knows that apart from themselves.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

It's totally unhealthy for Giggs to be involved at all - especially given the mafia like status the Co92 now seem to have. They'll be into running numbers rackets and skimming casino takes next.

The Nevbino crime family with Don 'make sure you charge them 39 p for tea' Garyeone at the head.

As tbs says, all goes away if we start playing decent stuff. Well the criticism will, unfortunately Gary isn't likely to.

It is small potatoes compared to what he dealt with at Barca and Bayern, and ultimately LVG has control, the fan base may not be certain of him yet but it does not take much to turn it around.

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

so siders what are you saying is that since giggs is assistant manager at united, scholes/neville et al shouldn't be pundits or shouldn't be giving honest opinions? Whether they are actually honest or not is a very subjective thought and either way nobody knows that apart from themselves.

I didn't mention Neville. He's more reserved in his appraisal of the coaching methods. Either because he sees the potentially unhealthy element that adds, or unlike Scholes he recognises that he doesn't attend the meetings and doesn't presume what's said.

I know it's not an easy situation, but unless Giggs comes out and defends the staff he works with then it's unhealthy. They can say United aren't playing well, but when Scholes suggests he doesn't like what the staff are doing with the players, then makes TV shows hanging about with the assistant (who is the outsider in LvG's staff) it's clearly a strange situation which does nobody any favours.

As for being subjective, I remember Scholes saying in quite explicit terms after the game in Moscow that if United won the title "who cares" how they play. He also said the home game against Moscow was better, then proceeded to have another pop just days later.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I didn't mention Neville. He's more reserved in his appraisal of the coaching methods. Either because he sees the potentially unhealthy element that adds, or unlike Scholes he recognises that he doesn't attend the meetings and doesn't presume what's said.

I know it's not an easy situation, but unless Giggs comes out and defends the staff he works with then it's unhealthy. They can say United aren't playing well, but when Scholes suggests he doesn't like what the staff are doing with the players, then makes TV shows hanging about with the assistant (who is the outsider in LvG's staff) it's clearly a strange situation which does nobody any favours.

As for being subjective, I remember Scholes saying in quite explicit terms after the game in Moscow that if United won the title "who cares" how they play. He also said the home game against Moscow was better, then proceeded to have another pop just days later.

are you interpreting that as scholes having a go at LVG purposefully with an agenda?

I reckon these ex player pundits are putty in the hands of TV producers (deffo the sat channels) who encourage/demand 'interesting' and or contentious comment and there is definitely outlining of scripts, themes etc. It's why the commentators have to say 'the premiership, the most exciting, magical, explosive etc league in the world' ten times every game

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

are you interpreting that as scholes having a go at LVG purposefully with an agenda?

Just pointing out his inconsistency. I said earlier I dunno if there's an agenda, I'm not privy to conversations Scholes and Giggs have.

It's possible Giggsy has reassured Van Gaal these are just Scholes's views. Would you believe him, though?

If Scholes wants to be a credible football pundit then he needs to talk about something that isn't to do with Utd

I'd say about 95% of his newspaper columns have been about Utd

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Just pointing out his inconsistency. I said earlier I dunno if there's an agenda, I'm not privy to conversations Scholes and Giggs have.

It's possible Giggsy has reassured Van Gaal these are just Scholes's views. Would you believe him, though?

Don't see why it really matters either way... Van Gaal has all of the tools to do the job, if a bit of sniping from an ex-player throws him off then that's a bit weird. He's surely been subject to loads of shit from Cryuff at Barca & an ex-player with vocal cords at Bayern.

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

If Scholes wants to be a credible football pundit then he needs to talk about something that isn't to do with Utd

I'd say about 95% of his newspaper columns have been about Utd

He won't be even writing them, ghosted on the back of a phone call and he may get a viewing before publication.

Originally Posted by Baron

Don't see why it really matters either way... Van Gaal has all of the tools to do the job, if a bit of sniping from an ex-player throws him off then that's a bit weird. He's surely been subject to loads of shit from Cryuff at Barca & an ex-player with vocal cords at Bayern.

Again, it's a unique situation. The criticism is coming from someone that everyone - including the players - know is close with the assistant manager. Fortunately, I suspect if Giggs is as passive and vacant with his communication with the players as he's always seemed, it's less of a big deal in terms of the impact it could have on Van Gaal's authority.

Don't get me wrong, Van Gaal is a genius of a coach and chances are even players who dislike him respect his opinions. He'll be very persuasive in terms of getting players to stick with him. The Scholes thing won't make or break his team, but it's definitely unusual.

He's not just an ex-player, though; he played alongside and is best buddies with the assistant manager, co-owns a football club with him, features in TV documentaries alongside him, was his assistant when he was caretaker at United, etc. Probably not all that big a deal, but it's definitely an odd situation.

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

If Scholes wants to be a credible football pundit then he needs to talk about something that isn't to do with Utd

I'd say about 95% of his newspaper columns have been about Utd

and 95% of everyone else's too. 95% of football is about united.


tbf, some scouse @#%&! (not naming him) wrote an article in the times today about possession not leading to success and the joy of pace and power and managed not to mention you know who or chanting. but we all knew what he meant.

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

He's not just an ex-player, though; he played alongside and is best buddies with the assistant manager, co-owns a football club with him, features in TV documentaries alongside him, was his assistant when he was caretaker at United, etc. Probably not all that big a deal, but it's definitely an odd situation.

LVG needs to bin Giggs off and get Big Paddy in. Can't have snide on your staff.

bin the players, bin the assistant!

the football isn't getting better but there seems to be one person of whom it's never his fault!