United's defence

I think Van Gaal expected us to do the early running.

He got a £#%&!ing shock but then again everybody did. Arsenal won't play like that again this season, everything they did came off. Everything.

We did play better in the second half but when they broke - they £#%&!ed it up.

The real issue was his lack of tactical response to losing the early goal, the second one and then the third one. :shakehead:

the ridiculously high line killed us.

We've got to get Jones back in and Blind to left back.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I saw the interview and I thought he looked quite shocked. I don't think he was looking to assign the blame, but he did mention some players not doing what was agreed, which for example could mean Memphis not covering his flank and leaving us badly exposed. Neville picked up on it once during commentary. He'll do a tactical analysis also, and will no doubt look at himself and where he went wrong.

But these games happen. They happened under Fergie. I thought the team looked all over the place, largely once again due to being too cavalier in our midfield pressing without being effective and therefore leaving huge spaces, but again - it happens. Barca just got tonked 4-1 by £#%&!ing Celta last month. Ultimately I back him and the team to respond, and to keep building us up. The spirit - if not the confidence - was there for the last hour.

The problem in saying he had his tactics right but the players don't execute them is that that's still his fault.

His teams are very rigid and can be figured out some days. I don't like it.

Originally Posted by celtbion

The problem in saying he had his tactics right but the players don't execute them is that that's still his fault.

His teams are very rigid and can be figured out some days. I don't like it.

He didn't get his tactics right though. High line, immobile and under resourced midfield.

That's what concerns me the most tbh. Van gaal has a dossier produced on every team so that he can zzzzzz the players about every possible nuance but then makes tactical balls ups like yesterday. I'd kind of expect it from a big Sam type who's in a curry house the night before writing his team sheet on a bar mat. But clipboard Colin has power pointed and stat attacked the whole thing to death for months yet gets it completely wrong.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

He didn't get his tactics right though. High line, immobile and under resourced midfield.

That's what concerns me the most tbh. Van gaal has a dossier produced on every team so that he can zzzzzz the players about every possible nuance but then makes tactical balls ups like yesterday. I'd kind of expect it from a big Sam type who's in a curry house the night before writing his team sheet on a bar mat. But clipboard Colin has power pointed and stat attacked the whole thing to death for months yet gets it completely wrong.

I'm not saying he got his tactics right.

The problem with these coaches is that if you're out thought, your players are out there doing exactly what you told them and exactly what the opposition coach is banking on them doing.

While I've no idea why he singled out Schweinsteiger, Neville was noting how the central midfield pushing on was exposing the defence time after time. I think previous Utd teams would have adapted themselves before it hit three zip.

That, fundamentally, is why I don't think LVG will put together a great team here. He doesn't allow enough individualism within a concrete outline of how he wants to play.

The next team after him could be great though.

Blind's been good at Centre Half but people seem to forget he kept Shaw out the team at LB last year. A Mistake from LVG not re-locating him to LB and starting Jones imo. Darmian had a terrible performance but the rest of the backline could have been better balanced for sure.

Also, Rooney did not perform the AM role at all, Fellaini just by being in the right position and playing simply had far more of an effect in helping us maintain possession higher up the pitch.

Carrick and Scweinsteiger should never start as the 2, Carrick isn't mobile enough to press and Schweinsteiger is the exact opposite. He roams and orchestrates but with Carrick always looking to drop ten yards, it left huge gaps through our middle.

Disappointing yesterday, nqat.

Shaw played whenever he was available last year. Was rushed back a couple of times before he was ready even.

van gaal wasn't out-thought. arsenal did nothing clever. they executed better in front of goal than they usually do. but the team we put out was wrong. obviously wrong, knowing how arsenal play. stupid.

the limit to wenger's thinking was walcott up front, but even that wasn't just for us.

no one in his right mind would pick a two-man midfield against arsenal away and have one of them go wandering forward. the team was far too weighted with attacking players who aren't performing.

if you walk into a lamp post, it's not a particularly canny lamp post.

Originally Posted by jem

van gaal wasn't out-thought. arsenal did nothing clever. they executed better in front of goal than they usually do. but the team we put out was wrong. obviously wrong, knowing how arsenal play. stupid.

the limit to wenger's thinking was walcott up front, but even that wasn't just for us.

no one in his right mind would pick a two-man midfield against arsenal away and have one of them go wandering forward. the team was far too weighted with attacking players who aren't performing.

if you walk into a lamp post, it's not a particularly canny lamp post.

Rooney was dropping in when Schweini went forward. But he's not very good at pressing anyway (the first goal came after Rooney was turned easily by Coquelin) and the reality is the defenders didn't defend well either. The spaces in front of the defenders was clearly a major issue, but everyone had a bad day really. I don't know how Smalling etc fail to spot Ozil, or get closer to Sanchez. It was shocking.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

He didn't get his tactics right though. High line, immobile and under resourced midfield.

That's what concerns me the most tbh. Van gaal has a dossier produced on every team so that he can zzzzzz the players about every possible nuance but then makes tactical balls ups like yesterday. I'd kind of expect it from a big Sam type who's in a curry house the night before writing his team sheet on a bar mat. But clipboard Colin has power pointed and stat attacked the whole thing to death for months yet gets it completely wrong.

So basically you expect him to get his tactics spot on in every single game? Yesterday is the first big game he's been outplayed in.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

So basically you expect him to get his tactics spot on in every single game? Yesterday is the first big game he's been outplayed in.

because psv away wasn't a must win?

Originally Posted by jem

because psv away wasn't a must win?

Even Scholesy said we played well in that game, so we must have been unlucky

We still need more off the bench, too. When you need to make some major changes in a huge game and turn to Valencia and Fellaini :shakehead:

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

So basically you expect him to get his tactics spot on in every single game? Yesterday is the first big game he's been outplayed in.

Not at all. But I'd expect him to be applauded when he gets it right and criticised when he gets it wrong. Pretty sure it's not me who has the balance wrong pal.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Not at all. But I'd expect him to be applauded when he gets it right and criticised when he gets it wrong. Pretty sure it's not me who has the balance wrong pal.

That's fair enough, I just don't think it's a worry that even van Gaal £#%&!s the tactics from time to time. They all do.

But the tactical problems are compounded when Rooney is playing like a @#%&!, Carrick was poor, Memphis plays on his own and the defenders don't mark properly. I thought LvG looked quite shocked in his interview, because he knows it was a disaster in every respect, not just tactical. The only slight positive was a decent show of spirit in the second half, albeit the they were devoid of belief and ideas.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

That's fair enough, I just don't think it's a worry that even van Gaal £#%&!s the tactics from time to time. They all do.

But the tactical problems are compounded when Rooney is playing like a @#%&!, Carrick was poor, Memphis plays on his own and the defenders don't mark properly. I thought LvG looked quite shocked in his interview, because he knows it was a disaster in every respect, not just tactical. The only slight positive was a decent show of spirit in the second half, albeit the they were devoid of belief and ideas.

I agree, it was a bad day at the office and tbh, a 3-0 defeat isn't that bad given I honestly thought they'd double it before the end of the match. And yep, defo dry throat time from lvg in the interview.

Tactics aside, he could do with dropping Rooney - no matter what the changing room fall out. Surely he can do it in a way that can suggest he's trying to rest him to improve him? He's played every single match we've ever £#%&!ing played ffs. Acknowledge its not easy but something needs to give in that department - well something did give yesterday.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I agree, it was a bad day at the office and tbh, a 3-0 defeat isn't that bad given I honestly thought they'd double it before the end of the match. And yep, defo dry throat time from lvg in the interview.

Tactics aside, he could do with dropping Rooney - no matter what the changing room fall out. Surely he can do it in a way that can suggest he's trying to rest him to improve him? He's played every single match we've ever £#%&!ing played ffs. Acknowledge its not easy but something needs to give in that department - well something did give yesterday.

Yep. I think we have reached, or at least are on the verge of reaching the stage where dropping Rooney shouldn't have too many negative consequences. He's played consistently in two positions he favours and been awful. The fans know it, the other players know it and the lad himself knows it. It's hard to see anyone, inside the club or on the terraces, complaining if he sits one out very soon.

I think he'll get one last chance at Everton, mind. Possibly on the left instead of Memphis. He'll work back better than Memph, which we'll need there. Three-man midfield with Schweini, Snidey and Carrick/Herrera. Wide open at Goodison like last season and it'll be two defeats on the bounce.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yep. I think we have reached, or at least are on the verge of reaching the stage where dropping Rooney shouldn't have too many negative consequences. He's played consistently in two positions he favours and been awful. The fans know it, the other players know it and the lad himself knows it. It's hard to see anyone, inside the club or on the terraces, complaining if he sits one out very soon.

I think he'll get one last chance at Everton, mind. Possibly on the left instead of Memphis. He'll work back better than Memph, which we'll need there. Three-man midfield with Schweini, Snidey and Carrick/Herrera. Wide open at Goodison like last season and it'll be two defeats on the bounce.

whilst playing rooney instead of memphis is reasonable (if you're not going to play young there), giving rooney his last chance against everton seems cruel. if you add up all his performances against everton, you wouldn't let him carry the kitbag.

True, its not exactly the best game for him at this point

Dropping him for that (citing a minor "injury" picked up on England duty if needs be) and then bringing him back for ciddy might be a better plan

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Rooney was dropping in when Schweini went forward. But he's not very good at pressing anyway (the first goal came after Rooney was turned easily by Coquelin) and the reality is the defenders didn't defend well either. The spaces in front of the defenders was clearly a major issue, but everyone had a bad day really. I don't know how Smalling etc fail to spot Ozil, or get closer to Sanchez. It was shocking.



So basically you expect him to get his tactics spot on in every single game? Yesterday is the first big game he's been outplayed in.

That is not a right statement at all. He has got outplayed in big matches, just managed to get the right result.

We were outplayed arsenal away and city away. But neither side took their chances (in case of city, they should have tonked us really looking at the chances)