attacking options

A combination of 2 of the Sch's & Carrick plus Herrara would suggest the best balance. Of course, we've now switched from a 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1, so that's £#%&!ed that.

He's a goal threat, he does things quickly and is always looking forward and trying to move that way. Has to be in the team.

Originally Posted by woody78

I wouldn't say he is 4th best at the club . He offers different things to the others .
I don't really like him in a 2 but play him a bit further up and he has creativity and goals

I like him, but he does get overrated by Reds IMO. I don't think he'd be a first-choice starter for Barca or Bayern as so many seem to say, for example.

He is energetic, can score goals, likes a tackle and can pass with purpose, but he can also be slack in possession, which is why he's found himself on the periphery.

Would like to see him in a two with Schweinsteiger, with Herrera pushing forward and Schweinsteiger holding, but at the moment I think Van Gaal wants more defensive-minded players involved to protect the new back four, hence Carrick and Schneiderlin. As the season progresses, hopefully Herrera can step up...

Originally Posted by Neo

I like him, but he does get overrated by Reds IMO. I don't think he'd be a first-choice starter for Barca or Bayern as so many seem to say, for example.

He is energetic, can score goals, likes a tackle and can pass with purpose, but he can also be slack in possession, which is why he's found himself on the periphery.

Would like to see him in a two with Schweinsteiger, with Herrera pushing forward and Schweinsteiger holding, but at the moment I think Van Gaal wants more defensive-minded players involved to protect the new back four, hence Carrick and Schneiderlin. As the season progresses, hopefully Herrera can step up...

I agree with most of that and can understand why he doesn't start every week , but not giving him any minutes when we need a goal like today is bizzare

I'd prefer herrera to mata atm - mata would be great at that 'walking football' when he's over 50

Originally Posted by woody78

I agree with most of that and can understand why he doesn't start every week , but not giving him any minutes when we need a goal like today is bizzare

I think Van Gaal understandably thought our biggest threat was down the wings, as that was where we were getting the most space as Newcastle became narrowly compact, hence bringing on the fresh legs of Valencia.

I reckon Herrera would have come on if we had another substitution left, but we didn't due to the early injury to Schweinsteiger which forced an unwanted change.

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

he wants to not want that then atm until he has better striker options.

mata was bang on form today but had no like-minded player in the attack. harks back to kagawa for me, and LVG can sort it very easily by teaming mata back up with herrera, especially at home. if that was to mean sometimes leaving out one of rooney or januzaj - or both - then so be it. let's see what pereira and wilson can do as well. where were they today?

Yes fair enough. LvG is adamant that he prefers the midfield triangle pointing forward with a no10/second striker, than backwards like Pep/Barca. But if I have it right (Sers will know better) when he was at Barca he played three midfielders with Guardiola sitting, with Cocu and another midfielder (Luis Enrique?) breaking forward, and Rivaldo and Figo wide of a striker. So it's not like he is unwilling to do that.

I agree about Mata and Herrera, although it didn't help the football much at the back end of last season, particularly at Palace. To me, Herrera's quick-thinking and injection of faster ball circulation is an obvious thing we're lacking, but I'd probably sacrifice Mata. Plenty of time for experimentation, though, and we are still protecting a potential disaster in goal. In that regard the clean sheets are promising.

I'll be disappointed if Pereira doesn't get chances, but early to read much into that I'd say. We needed a solid start.

The automated football they're aspiring to clearly takes £#%&!ing ages to adapt to. 5 new signings & more to come, it's a long, long process. Shame it's so £#%&!ing dull before the pay off tbh.

Van Gaal's stubborn adherence to it is his biggest weakness, but I don't see any other way but his while he's here - when will it kick in? This season? Start of next year? Next season?

It always has wherever he's been, so I'm willing to wait, just wish he'd speed up the play a bit as clearly there are players capable of great football in the squad. Some of it feels unnecessarily mundane.

Originally Posted by Baron

The automated football they're aspiring to clearly takes £#%&!ing ages to adapt to. 5 new signings & more to come, it's a long, long process. Shame it's so £#%&!ing dull before the pay off tbh.

Van Gaal's stubborn adherence to it is his biggest weakness, but I don't see any other way but his while he's here - when will it kick in? This season? Start of next year? Next season?

It always has wherever he's been, so I'm willing to wait, just wish he'd speed up the play a bit as clearly there are players capable of great football in the squad. Some of it feels unnecessarily mundane.

They're all the same. Pep, Bielsa, LvG - live and die by their way. Funnily enough it does create clarity for the players because they always know exactly what he wants. Unlike Rodgers, who can't make his mind up what the £#%&! type of football and players he likes.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

They're all the same. Pep, Bielsa, LvG - live and die by their way. Funnily enough it does create clarity for the players because they always know exactly what he wants. Unlike Rodgers, who can't make his mind up what the £#%&! type of football and players he likes.

It's very 'one trick pony'. Albeit a tremendously good one.

Fergie's ability to adapt & still deliver really was ridiculous.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yes fair enough. LvG is adamant that he prefers the midfield triangle pointing forward with a no10/second striker, than backwards like Pep/Barca. But if I have it right (Sers will know better) when he was at Barca he played three midfielders with Guardiola sitting, with Cocu and another midfielder (Luis Enrique?) breaking forward, and Rivaldo and Figo wide of a striker. So it's not like he is unwilling to do that.

I agree about Mata and Herrera, although it didn't help the football much at the back end of last season, particularly at Palace. To me, Herrera's quick-thinking and injection of faster ball circulation is an obvious thing we're lacking, but I'd probably sacrifice Mata. Plenty of time for experimentation, though, and we are still protecting a potential disaster in goal. In that regard the clean sheets are promising.

I'll be disappointed if Pereira doesn't get chances, but early to read much into that I'd say. We needed a solid start.

tbf I tend to put the back end of last season down to the prize being reset (from a long shot at the title and 2nd as serious target, down to just top 4) and also think that mental switch off cost us automatic CL qualification. Carrick getting crocked was a major and obvious change, but also Jones getting crocked changed the back line. Adjusting to those two changes showed the positional play up in terms of easily switching between personnel and it being as close to automatic.

agree on the keeper, don't really trust him and wouldn't risk having him think he's number one at any stage.

LvG rather worryingly reckons we don't need anymore forwards or at least that's what he's telling the press..

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

They're all the same. Pep, Bielsa, LvG - live and die by their way. Funnily enough it does create clarity for the players because they always know exactly what he wants. Unlike Rodgers, who can't make his mind up what the £#%&! type of football and players he likes.

yes, rodgers knows much of the mechanics by the looks of it but doesn't really know why he's doing it, hence why he ends up chasing his tail. if he'd ever won anything he'd at least have a reference.

Originally Posted by Baron

It's very 'one trick pony'. Albeit a tremendously good one.

Fergie's ability to adapt & still deliver really was ridiculous.

It is a bit, and it's taking a long time. But he's had a hell of a lot to sort through. And a big part of the trick is working out how to break down low defences by trusting your football rather than panicking. The end to the game yesterday with us passing it around with seconds on the clock was frustrating, but shows a belief and a commitment to what they're doing, which is not a bad sign in a team.

It's a natural part of the process to have games like yesterday, where you don't break through so it looks timid. But as Pep knows, any time it doesn't work the play-style cops the blame. He can batter teams all year, but struggle to make the breakthrough in a big game and people will say it's too orchestrated. They won't change, though. They'll still have the same idea in their head of the perfect team.

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

yes, rodgers knows much of the mechanics by the looks of it but doesn't really know why he's doing it, hence why he ends up chasing his tail. if he'd ever won anything he'd at least have a reference.

Yep. Has some obvious qualities, but can't make his mind up. No brain in his Liverpool side. For a guy who liked to portray himself as a disciple of the Spanish style, it's strange to see him create a team with a block at the back of the team of Lovren, Skrtel, Henderson and Milner. Nobody to really take responsibility to drive or play the team forward from the back, and nobody to run a game. Instead just run.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think it's an issue of type. Herrera isn't a deep midfielder, looks better suited to playing further up. LvG wants a second striker there.



He performed at times, not at others. Everton away in April was a bad day for him and Blind as a weak midfield pair. I don't like him too much in a two, tbh. Bit of a liability at times in that role. I'd like to see him at the tip of the triangle with Memphis and Adnan wide.

no one in his right mind would play herrera in a two. he provides good defensive cover for an attacking midfielder, but he needs players behind him ideally. van gaal played rooney in midfield, which was a mistake. he needs to get over his striker in that role.... if he thinks that way; playing memphis, janners or mata there doesn't suggest it is how he thinks.

Originally Posted by woody78

I wouldn't say he is 4th best at the club . He offers different things to the others .
I don't really like him in a 2 but play him a bit further up and he has creativity and goals

this.

Originally Posted by dunk

A combination of 2 of the Sch's & Carrick plus Herrara would suggest the best balance. Of course, we've now switched from a 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1, so that's £#%&!ed that.

He's a goal threat, he does things quickly and is always looking forward and trying to move that way. Has to be in the team.

and this.

for all the talk about system > players, mata is too slow and janners too eratic. herrera should play, with two or three of sch & carrick behind (let's call it a diamond - or tip up and down triangles). all three of sch & carrick can provide attacking threat. memphis cutting from the left, rooney making the runs currently being ignored. if van gaal wants to play a different way, he needs to buy a brick shithouse striker and a very quick or tricky winger. right now, his selections (and his #@&%!ed substitutions) are hampering both our points total and my viewing experience.

just seen LVG clip on MotD saying you cannot say rooney isn't scoring cus he scored today. great line about the lino being the best in the world to call it back, but still think it's missing the point.

rooney is more than capable of hitting 25 goals. his finishing is top class and the only part of his game that's ever been world class. but it takes much more than that as a player physically and technically to get goals in this system. that brief snippet shearer did is exactly the problem in a nutshell, and was always likely to be. stick rooney up against the centre backs with no runners and he has always been very comfortably negated. he doesn't have the technique to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Semantic Lisp

just seen LVG clip on MotD saying you cannot say rooney isn't scoring cus he scored today. great line about the lino being the best in the world to call it back, but still think it's missing the point.

rooney is more than capable of hitting 25 goals. his finishing is top class and the only part of his game that's ever been world class. but it takes much more than that as a player physically and technically to get goals in this system. that brief snippet shearer did is exactly the problem in a nutshell, and was always likely to be. stick rooney up against the centre backs with no runners and he has always been very comfortably negated. he doesn't have the technique to deal with it.

blah blah blah.... shit system..... blah blah blah..... totally van gaal's fault..... blah blah blah.

good to have you on board, if reluctantly.