United's debt

Originally Posted by Spiffy

Still following me around I see.

you see? paranoid as well as thick as pig shit

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

oh yeah good point

United aren't a football club

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

you see? paranoid as well as thick as pig shit

Paranoid? No. Tired of your shite? Yes. You're still quoting my posts, you've managed to irritate others as well now, can't you just stick to them?

Please expand on why I'm thick as pig shit, should be interesting. I always like it when you explain your comments, they make such sense. (I'll make a point of looking out for this so don't disappoint me).

I think this is the one topic on here you can always count on the same people turning up.

Interesting...

Originally Posted by Ed Sullivan

I think this is the one topic on here you can always count on the same people turning up.

Interesting...

Some people's motivations for taking a particular stance are obvious, others less so.

Originally Posted by Fat Al

Without resorting to a 47 page shit-slinging thread with 4 or 5 people getting banned, can some one answer me some simple questions about United & the debt.

Who actually owes the money? It's not United, is it? Is it this holding company (I can't remember the name)?

Is this how United can say they have made a large profit, yet that amount clearly doesn't take into account the debt repayments (the fact that technically, United don't owe the money)?

Does anyone have accurate figures for the past couple of years showing Uniteds profit & the amount of debt repayment?

- Red Football Limited, Manchester United Football Club Limited and Manchester United Limited jointly borrowed the senior debt, £575m from JP Morgan on 16 August 2006. At the current LIBOR, the total interest payable on the senior debt is £53m per annum. None of the interest payable was deducted from United's recent earnings, so the accounts for Red Football Limited will show this in the summer.

- £425m of the senior debt is secured on the assets and undertakings of Manchester United Limited. The remainder is secured on the shares of Manchester United Limited which are Red Football Limited's only asset.

- In addition, Red Joint Venture Ltd borrowed £138m from the hedge funds on an interest roll-up basis. Nothing is paid back. The interest is added to the capital and interest is charged on the higher capital balance in subsequent years. The rate is 14.25% pa fixed. £20m was added to the loan in 2006/7 and £23m will be added in 2007/8. The loan is not due to be redeemed until 2017 and if it is left until then, will exceed £500m. This is secured on shares in Red Football Limited.

- In 2005/6 around £20m interest was paid. In 2006/7 around £42m should have been paid. We won't be able to confirm this until the accounts for Red Football are published.

Originally Posted by Ed Sullivan

I think this is the one topic on here you can always count on the same people turning up.

Interesting...

start an Irish politics thread and get more at it.

then a race thread

start a hootinanny!

I don't think the prices at ot have anything to do with servicing the debt. They are just set as high as the market will allow.

btw what was the dollar at when the glazers arrived and what is it at now?

Originally Posted by redloner

- Red Football Limited, Manchester United Football Club Limited and Manchester United Limited jointly borrowed the senior debt, £575m from JP Morgan on 16 August 2006. At the current LIBOR, the total interest payable on the senior debt is £53m per annum. None of the interest payable was deducted from United's recent earnings, so the accounts for Red Football Limited will show this in the summer.

- £425m of the senior debt is secured on the assets and undertakings of Manchester United Limited. The remainder is secured on the shares of Manchester United Limited which are Red Football Limited's only asset.

- In addition, Red Joint Venture Ltd borrowed £138m from the hedge funds on an interest roll-up basis. Nothing is paid back. The interest is added to the capital and interest is charged on the higher capital balance in subsequent years. The rate is 14.25% pa fixed. £20m was added to the loan in 2006/7 and £23m will be added in 2007/8. The loan is not due to be redeemed until 2017 and if it is left until then, will exceed £500m. This is secured on shares in Red Football Limited.

- In 2005/6 around £20m interest was paid. In 2006/7 around £42m should have been paid. We won't be able to confirm this until the accounts for Red Football are published.

Thanks for that, just what I was after. Unfortunately, my complete lack of knowledge of the world of financial affairs means that it makes little sense to me. Let me try and get my head around it.
The debt is spread about between 3 companies. When United announce a profit, that profit hasn't taken into account any debt/interest repayments? So, approx. £53 mill a year is being paid back, but even at this rate, they will have to find £500 mill in 2017, even if they have met every single yearly repayment?

Originally Posted by armchair

I don't think the prices at ot have anything to do with servicing the debt. They are just set as high as the market will allow.

I'm sure that if Uncle Ginger @#%&! were to suddenly find enough to pay off the debt, ticket prices wouldn't come down one penny. Like you said, they'll be put as high as the market will sustain.

Originally Posted by armchair

I don't think the prices at ot have anything to do with servicing the debt. They are just set as high as the market will allow.

btw what was the dollar at when the glazers arrived and what is it at now?

They've posibly made a killing. Assuming the loan is in dollars and they sell the club in sterling, they'd make tens of millions if they sold at what they bought at due to the weak dollar. I'd assume the debt is in sterling though as the revenues are and also the club is based here. Don't know though.

Originally Posted by Fat Al

Thanks for that, just what I was after. Unfortunately, my complete lack of knowledge of the world of financial affairs means that it makes little sense to me. Let me try and get my head around it.
The debt is spread about between 3 companies. When United announce a profit, that profit hasn't taken into account any debt/interest repayments? So, approx. £53 mill a year is being paid back, but even at this rate, they will have to find £500 mill in 2017, even if they have met every single yearly repayment?

The debt will never be paid back. They can deduct interest payments from the profits reducing their tax bill. The debt is here to stay. If they feel they can do it safely, they may even increase it.

people would use the search function. there isn't enough time in the day to repeat the same answers over and over and over and over.

there are penalties if some of the debt in the holding company is not repaid, incidentally.

Originally Posted by armchair

I don't think the prices at ot have anything to do with servicing the debt. They are just set as high as the market will allow.

btw what was the dollar at when the glazers arrived and what is it at now?

Not being facitious but XE.Com will give you the grim results of that.....

Originally Posted by marlo stansfield

calm down little ray.

Here's an idea.

Go stick a traffic cone up your arse you stupid @#%&!.

Originally Posted by Fat Al

Thanks for that, just what I was after. Unfortunately, my complete lack of knowledge of the world of financial affairs means that it makes little sense to me. Let me try and get my head around it.
The debt is spread about between 3 companies. When United announce a profit, that profit hasn't taken into account any debt/interest repayments? So, approx. £53 mill a year is being paid back, but even at this rate, they will have to find £500 mill in 2017, even if they have met every single yearly repayment?

The debt was borrowed in the names of those four companies mentioned, but the only assets worth anything are the assets of United and the shares in United.

Yes. United's accounts show no deduction of interest before profit is set.

£53m is purely interest on the JP Morgan debt. So if they carry on paying that, they will owe £1.1 billion by 2017.

Originally Posted by Spiffy

They've posibly made a killing. Assuming the loan is in dollars and they sell the club in sterling, they'd make tens of millions if they sold at what they bought at due to the weak dollar. I'd assume the debt is in sterling though as the revenues are and also the club is based here. Don't know though.

The borrowing is sterling denominated and based on LIBOR+. I assume they have some currency hedging arrangements.