LVG and substitutions

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

United were not pragmatic in the slightest last night. No amount of whining about LvG is going to change that.

He played Herrera and Schweini as a two away from home in the Champions League ffs

Do people actually watch the games?

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

He is pragmatic in his selections. That's the only reason I can think of why he continues to pick fellaini, young, valencia...

How many young players he is trying to blood in pal (apart from the ones he has bought for millions of pounds). Most of them have either been sold or loaned out.

And the 2 remaining don't even get on the bench.

I have no idea what the fitness/attitude status of Pereira and Wilson are, but I expect they will both be involved in the Carling Cup game and need to use that as a starting point. LvG gave plenty of chances to academy players last season, so you can't say he won't do it.

But again, the selection last night was not pragmatic. Herrera in a midfield two is something that doesn't work too well, which LvG figured out a year ago when everyone was losing their shit about him not playing there. I suspect he'll go back to the no10 position, but last night we gave Mata a chance there. He didn't really take it.

The manager is still experimenting. I think we may go with the two natural wide players on Sunday with Herrera as no10 and Schneiderling could return to the midfield. Appears the most balanced side we can field, but Mata had to be given a chance - he delivered in the big moments last season.

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

He is pragmatic in his selections. That's the only reason I can think of why he continues to pick fellaini, young, valencia...

How many young players he is trying to blood in pal (apart from the ones he has bought for millions of pounds). Most of them have either been sold or loaned out.

And the 2 remaining don't even get on the bench.

Of the three players mentioned, how many games have they started this season?

Originally Posted by Amish Mash

Of the three players mentioned, how many games have they started this season?

Valencia 0, Fellaini 1 and Young 2, and tbf to Young he deserved a start after his performance Saturday.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I have no idea what the fitness/attitude status of Pereira and Wilson are, but I expect they will both be involved in the Carling Cup game and need to use that as a starting point. LvG gave plenty of chances to academy players last season, so you can't say he won't do it.

But again, the selection last night was not pragmatic. Herrera in a midfield two is something that doesn't work too well, which LvG figured out a year ago when everyone was losing their shit about him not playing there. I suspect he'll go back to the no10 position, but last night we gave Mata a chance there. He didn't really take it.

The manager is still experimenting. I think we may go with the two natural wide players on Sunday with Herrera as no10 and Schneiderling could return to the midfield. Appears the most balanced side we can field, but Mata had to be given a chance - he delivered in the big moments last season.

You can keep saying that but at some point of time the issues stops being about the players and more about the manager. There is a trend here. The only ones that seem to get more chances despite failing multiple times are the yes men. Giggs/Ronaldo would have got shipped out before they blossomed.

Talk about agenda/watching the games. Mourinho played most games with only Matic as a midfielder (and even he gets much more into attacking third than carrick/schweini) and people still claim he is negative. Because the play is negative. We are the same but we just have more possession on the ball.

The 3 games where we average highest possession of the ball have been newcastle, swansea and PSV. Basically we don't have a clue or the manager wants to keep hold of the ball more/lesser risks when we are behind. That is the reason we never look like getting back into matches once going behind.

Originally Posted by dunk

Valencia 0, Fellaini 1 and Young 2, and tbf to Young he deserved a start after his performance Saturday.

So he hasn't continued to select them then. £#%&!ing silly point, not you obv!

Originally Posted by Amish Mash

Of the three players mentioned, how many games have they started this season?

Exactly. Great thing about LvG is that he isn't standing still and thinking about what worked during that brief spell last season. Valencia, Young and Fellaini were all mainstays when we were beating Liverpool, City etc but he's already moving on from that. Valencia has barely had a kick this season, Young has only just come back in for the first time since Spurs I think. Fellaini has got a ridiculous start on Saturday under his belt, but you hope once Rooney's back we'll see much less of him, too.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Exactly. Great thing about LvG is that he isn't standing still and thinking about what worked during that brief spell last season. Valencia, Young and Fellaini were all mainstays when we were beating Liverpool, City etc but he's already moving on from that. Valencia has barely had a kick this season, Young has only just come back in for the first time since Spurs I think. Fellaini has got a ridiculous start on Saturday under his belt, but you hope once Rooney's back we'll see much less of him, too.

that's because he was suspended for the first 3 games. And he will start more games too unless wilson is involved. Because there is no way depay and martial will be able to play 50 odd games. They will be £#%&!ed during the run in.

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

You can keep saying that but at some point of time the issues stops being about the players and more about the manager. There is a trend here. The only ones that seem to get more chances despite failing multiple times are the yes men. Giggs/Ronaldo would have got shipped out before they blossomed.

Talk about agenda/watching the games. Mourinho played most games with only Matic as a midfielder (and even he gets much more into attacking third than carrick/schweini) and people still claim he is negative. Because the play is negative. We are the same but we just have more possession on the ball.

The 3 games where we average highest possession of the ball have been newcastle, swansea and PSV. Basically we don't have a clue or the manager wants to keep hold of the ball more/lesser risks when we are behind. That is the reason we never look like getting back into matches once going behind.

Because his team plays deeper, commits fewer players forward and in his third season still loves grafters like Willian and Ramires over true flair. United play high up the field, want to dominate games and play in the opposition third. It's not negative, we just currently don't quite have the right blend of players in that final third, although the signs with Memphis and Martial are promising.

LvG attracted similar criticism in his early days at Ajax for rigid, expressionless football iirc. Then they took the piss out of Europe for the best part of two years. What he's seeking is complete control of games, like Barca and Bayern seek. It was never going to come overnight, but we're improving. Not only am I being patient, I'm finding the process interesting to watch. He's building us up; it'll be worth it

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Because his team plays deeper, commits fewer players forward and in his third season still loves grafters like Willian and Ramires over true flair. United play high up the field, want to dominate games and play in the opposition third. It's not negative, we just currently don't quite have the right blend of players in that final third, although the signs with Memphis and Martial are promising.

LvG attracted similar criticism in his early days at Ajax for rigid, expressionless football iirc. Then they took the piss out of Europe for the best part of two years. What he's seeking is complete control of games, like Barca and Bayern seek. It was never going to come overnight, but we're improving. Not only am I being patient, I'm finding the process interesting to watch. He's building us up; it'll be worth it

you can say what you like about the process and what van gaal is trying to achieve, but his team selection was £#%&!ing stupid. no point in playing mata at 10, but, even if you do, play a £#%&!ing midfield behind him.

Originally Posted by jem

you can say what you like about the process and what van gaal is trying to achieve, but his team selection was £#%&!ing stupid. no point in playing mata at 10, but, even if you do, play a £#%&!ing midfield behind him.

First time he's done it in a long time, which Mata probably deserved and against a constant backdrop of calls for him to play there.

Arguably again proving him right not to have been doing it. Just like he was right last season when he decided early on Herrera isn't really best suited as a midfielder.

If there's no point playing Mata at 10, there's no point playing Mata full stop.

Originally Posted by jem

you can say what you like about the process and what van gaal is trying to achieve, but his team selection was £#%&!ing stupid. no point in playing mata at 10, but, even if you do, play a £#%&!ing midfield behind him.

We were good until the second PSV goal. Completely dominated the match, created a number of very clear cut chances, more than enough to comfortably win the game, and PSV hardly had a look. And with slightly better pass selection or execution in the final third, we could've very easily created even more. Their first goal was unfortunate, a deflected header, coming from a man who shouldn't have been on the pitch. Their second goal came from individual errors. If we'd won, as we should have, I think most people would've been more than pleased with that performance.

Criticism of the substitutions is legitimate, though, I think. After the second goal, we lost our composure a bit, but still looked like we could score. That all stopped after Fellaini came on. I can understand the thinking with bringing him on, giving an aerial threat for crosses and set pieces, as in the Brugge match, but if he was going to used, for me he should've been brought on for Mata and put up alongside Martial. As was, he completely destroyed our fluidity. (I thought Valencia should've come for for Darmian, too, rather than Young. And earlier.)

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Because his team plays deeper, commits fewer players forward and in his third season still loves grafters like Willian and Ramires over true flair. United play high up the field, want to dominate games and play in the opposition third. It's not negative, we just currently don't quite have the right blend of players in that final third, although the signs with Memphis and Martial are promising.

LvG attracted similar criticism in his early days at Ajax for rigid, expressionless football iirc. Then they took the piss out of Europe for the best part of two years. What he's seeking is complete control of games, like Barca and Bayern seek. It was never going to come overnight, but we're improving. Not only am I being patient, I'm finding the process interesting to watch. He's building us up; it'll be worth it

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

We were good until the second PSV goal. Completely dominated the match, created a number of very clear cut chances, more than enough to comfortably win the game, and PSV hardly had a look. And with slightly better pass selection or execution in the final third, we could've very easily created even more. Their first goal was unfortunate, a deflected header, coming from a man who shouldn't have been on the pitch. Their second goal came from individual errors. If we'd won, as we should have, I think most people would've been more than pleased with that performance.

Criticism of the substitutions is legitimate, though, I think. After the second goal, we lost our composure a bit, but still looked like we could score. That all stopped after Fellaini came on. I can understand the thinking with bringing him on, giving an aerial threat for crosses and set pieces, as in the Brugge match, but if he was going to used, for me he should've been brought on for Mata and put up alongside Martial. As was, he completely destroyed our fluidity. (I thought Valencia should've come for for Darmian, too, rather than Young. And earlier.)

All exactly what I was saying during the latter stages

Don't like Tony but him for Darmian was the only change I'd have made in the second half really. Maybe a midfielder, but the Fellaini change felt like a change for the sake of a change. We're still losing, so something has to change. It really didn't.

Getting rid of all those attacking players in the summer and only signing Memphis and Martial as replacements could prove a really big mistake by LvG

Our attacking options are really shallow and quite poor for a club of our stature

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

Criticism of the substitutions is legitimate, though, I think. After the second goal, we lost our composure a bit, but still looked like we could score. That all stopped after Fellaini came on. I can understand the thinking with bringing him on, giving an aerial threat for crosses and set pieces, as in the Brugge match, but if he was going to used, for me he should've been brought on for Mata and put up alongside Martial. As was, he completely destroyed our fluidity. (I thought Valencia should've come for for Darmian, too, rather than Young. And earlier.)

Finally, one of the lvg evangelists admits that potentially, occasionally, the God like lvg might drop some clangers.

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

Getting rid of all those attacking players in the summer and only signing Memphis and Martial as replacements could prove a really big mistake by LvG

Not sure how we'll manage without two shit strikers & a useless slapped arse rat @#%&! who never wanted to be here in the first place tbh.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Not sure how we'll manage without two shit strikers & a useless slapped arse rat @#%&! who never wanted to be here in the first place tbh.

Martial clearly capable of making quite an immediate impact, btw

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Not sure how we'll manage without two shit strikers & a useless slapped arse rat c*** who never wanted to be here in the first place tbh.

Martial and Depay are quality.

Mata is a big part of why the team are pedestrian in the final third.

I'm thinking 4-3-3 might be good with Depay and Rooney off Martial.

Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Herrera in midfield.
I think Schneiderlin needs to be in there for what he gives covering space in midfield, regardless of his slow start.