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Unread 21-01-2020, 08:49 PM
Coracao
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty_b
Well exactly. So it would seem that it's not just down to the manager then if we've had the same issues with three different managers over 5 years.
No shit, I've been calling our squad shite for years, but hardly a great insight is it.

The fact that none of them can get us playing any semblance of decent football is however nonetheless alarming. We are just a poor team to watch and have been for a good number of years. Been some £#%&!ing brutal football under all three on a regular basis. I honestly dont know what we spend our time doing in training sessions. We always look like a team just thrown together. No decent patterns of play and cant even defend set pieces
 
Unread 21-01-2020, 08:50 PM
Chris Quayd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyroo
I don't think Pochettino has absolutely massive question marks, not in terms of what we're actually looking for now. I know OMG NO TROPHIES and that but what we really want short to medium term is to be comfortable in our skins and at least looking like getting into the champions league most years, makes it easier to get the players you want etc.

But yes yet another £#%&!ing manager change and more instability is a pretty depressing prospect. It's pretty well forced on us though because much as I love Ole and always will, this is one £#%&!ing awful job and needs someone pretty special. And it's not his fault, but it isn't really him is it. Wish it was with all my heart, but it's not. £#%&! everything.
The question mark for Posh isn't trophies imo, it's how things ended at Spurs. Do we want another manager who outstayed his welcome at his last job, with a family that are probably settled in London and would end up moving up to live in an Airbnb? I'm not even convinced he would take the job, he's currently talked about as a future Real Madrid or Bayern Munich manager. Our last three managers followed us with Real Sociedad, Spurs and early retirement
 
Unread 21-01-2020, 08:54 PM
andyroo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
The question mark for Posh isn't trophies imo, it's how things ended at Spurs. Do we want another manager who outstayed his welcome at his last job, with a family that are probably settled in London and would end up moving up to live in an Airbnb? I'm not even convinced he would take the job, he's currently talked about as a future Real Madrid or Bayern Munich manager. Our last three managers followed us with Real Sociedad, Spurs and early retirement
Yep that's fair too. The stability thing is a right worry.

Not many managers that are free even though things went swimmingly where they were though.

Basically we're £#%&!ed aren't we. The best two managers in the world will never manage us. Nobody else is up to much.
 
Unread 21-01-2020, 11:09 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Originally Posted by 20LEgend1999
Absolutely spot on. Aside from the fact he's been in charge of 64 games, not 40, and we've lost 18 of them, not 19. Apart from that though, bang on the money as usual!
Good facts, as opposed to real facts
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 02:08 AM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
Again Keith mate, strawman stuff re Lingard. I don’t know anybody on here or IRL that thinks he’s a player.

I do however think both of the managers you mention would improve the football at United because they are superior coaches to the man at our helm.
The last sentence is the one I’m starting to come to terms with.

Ole with his couple of seasons at Molde would never be on any list of United managers if he wasn’t who he is. We’d laugh our balls off at the suggestion of hiring someone with that amount of experience. He was the right man to come on and look after things for a couple of months until we found a real manager, but that’s it.

At first I was saying let’s see what happens. Wouldn’t it be amazing if we could turn it around with Ole in charge? But increasingly I’m just not seeing that progress that Ole and some on here are seeing. It’s all very well being positive about losing to Liverpool “with the squad we’ve got”, but are we really saying our squad is worse that Watford, Palace, Everton or Bournemouth? Those embarrassments are as much on the management as they are on the owners.

At some point we’ll need to bin nostalgia and sentimentality and judge ole entirely on outcomes. And I can’t see that having a happy ending for him.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:13 AM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
The last sentence is the one I’m starting to come to terms with.

Ole with his couple of seasons at Molde would never be on any list of United managers if he wasn’t who he is. We’d laugh our balls off at the suggestion of hiring someone with that amount of experience. He was the right man to come on and look after things for a couple of months until we found a real manager, but that’s it.

At first I was saying let’s see what happens. Wouldn’t it be amazing if we could turn it around with Ole in charge? But increasingly I’m just not seeing that progress that Ole and some on here are seeing. It’s all very well being positive about losing to Liverpool “with the squad we’ve got”, but are we really saying our squad is worse that Watford, Palace, Everton or Bournemouth? Those embarrassments are as much on the management as they are on the owners.

At some point we’ll need to bin nostalgia and sentimentality and judge ole entirely on outcomes. And I can’t see that having a happy ending for him.
You know it just might be.. certainly for midfield options.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:30 AM
marlo
 
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a shit builder can get all the latest tools he wants he will still be a shit builder.
this is the next stage of this ole experiment...

do you actually think he knows how to set up a team, a plan b, an instant tactic change to solve a deficiency that has appeared during a game. look at his subs for £#%&!s sake.

63' if drawing - poorest player on the pitch in midfield off for periera or lingard
if losing - double sub periera/lingard + mata
77' - 81' Greenwood for James
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:31 AM
utd99
 
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Give the man time to do his job for £#%&!s sake. Internet hysteria.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:33 AM
NedKelly
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlo
a shit builder can get all the latest tools he wants he will still be a shit builder.
this is the next stage of this ole experiment...

do you actually think he knows how to set up a team, a plan b, an instant tactic change to solve a deficiency that has appeared during a game. look at his subs for f***s sake.

63' if drawing - poorest player on the pitch in midfield off for periera or lingard
if losing - double sub periera/lingard + mata
77' - 81' Greenwood for James
I feel like we use the subs as a stick to beat Ole with. Remember, we have a really thin squad devoid of quality; the subs are always gonna he disappointing. Except for Greenwood, but then I think he should be starting more frequently with Rashford out.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:34 AM
puressence
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlo
a shit builder can get all the latest tools he wants he will still be a shit builder.
this is the next stage of this ole experiment...

do you actually think he knows how to set up a team, a plan b, an instant tactic change to solve a deficiency that has appeared during a game. look at his subs for £#%&!s sake.

63' if drawing - poorest player on the pitch in midfield off for periera or lingard
if losing - double sub periera/lingard + mata
77' - 81' Greenwood for James
your cute xx
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:39 AM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Give the man time to do his job for £#%&!s sake. Internet hysteria.
How long do give him? And would you be saying this if we had brought in Ronny Deila (who actually has more experience and success than Ole)? Or would you be saying, shit we £#%&!ed up here.

Not saying you are wrong. Just keen to see the arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
You know it just might be.. certainly for midfield options.
It's not. It's just that we are close to our own players and see their faults more. Everton fans probably say the same when they see Davies and Schnederlin on the team sheets.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:51 AM
Dr Stranger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
How long do give him? And would you be saying this if we had brought in Ronny Deila (who actually has more experience and success than Ole)? Or would you be saying, shit we f***ed up here.

Not saying you are wrong. Just keen to see the arguments.
Yes, we have to give managers time, but we also have to assess as we go.

It's not as black and white as give them no time or a full three years.

Personally, I wouldn't sack him yet as I really don't see any benefit to doing so and he has nowhere near enough of his own players at the club to make a call like that at this point.... but I also don't think much has happened in the pitch to suggest progress.

My biggest concern is that we don't look like we know what we're doing on the pitch. Apart from counter attacking teams that attack us (which most of the league wont) we have no clue what to do.

We should know that a year in.

The subs?... meh. What else can he do? There's so few options? We can say change the system, but he does that and gets called Jose for playing five at the back. Other than that, it's like for like. And our like is shit.

It's very hard to judge any manager with this squad. Did he create some of the problems himself by selling? Sure, but we needed players out - another thing we've been calling for for years. The next part is getting players in. He's not responsible for that.

Do we honestly believe he didn't want a striker to replace Lukaku?

He clearly wants Fernandes. We all do. He can see how obvious an issue that is in our side. And the club is typically screwing it up.

I don't trust the club to properly back ANY manager. All our manager's failings should have the Woodward/Glazer asterisk by their name.

I'm sure there's better coaches out there than Ole. But he's the one we've got and the bigger issue is the clowns above them. They're the common denominator of our failings of the last 7 years, not Ole.

Unless we strike it lucky with a Klopp (and even within that time they got a shit hot DOF that massively improved recruitment), there's a limit and caveat to everything we do.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:56 AM
Zorg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
How long do give him? And would you be saying this if we had brought in Ronny Deila (who actually has more experience and success than Ole)? Or would you be saying, shit we £#%&!ed up here.

Not saying you are wrong. Just keen to see the arguments.
Any manager who came in, spoke positively, cleared out some garbage, promoted a load of youth players who genuinely seem to respect him and performed superbly, got the front 3 scoring, and was still in with a shout for 4th place despite a horrendous series of injuries, I'd want to be given two full seasons before starting again. Not two half seasons.
That's not to say I wouldn't have reservations, as I do now. I just couldn't care less that he used to play for us.
Because people (not you) are still clinging to the idea that there are easy answers and cast-iron guarantees out there, and there just aren't.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 08:57 AM
AK14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stranger
Yes, we have to give managers time, but we also have to assess as we go.

It's not as black and white as give them no time or a full three years.

Personally, I wouldn't sack him yet as I really don't see any benefit to doing so and he has nowhere near enough of his own players at the club to make a call like that at this point.... but I also don't think much has happened in the pitch to suggest progress.

My biggest concern is that we don't look like we know what we're doing on the pitch. Apart from counter attacking teams that attack us (which most of the league wont) we have no clue what to do.

We should know that a year in.

The subs?... meh. What else can he do? There's so few options? We can say change the system, but he does that and gets called Jose for playing five at the back. Other than that, it's like for like. And our like is shit.

It's very hard to judge any manager with this squad. Did he create some of the problems himself by selling? Sure, but we needed players out - another thing we've been calling for for years. The next part is getting players in. He's not responsible for that.

Do we honestly believe he didn't want a striker to replace Lukaku?

He clearly wants Fernandes. We all do. He can see how obvious an issue that is in our side. And the club is typically screwing it up.

I don't trust the club to properly back ANY manager. All our manager's failings should have the Woodward/Glazer asterisk by their name.

I'm sure there's better coaches out there than Ole. But he's the one we've got and the bigger issue is the clowns above them. They're the common denominator of our failings of the last 7 years, not Ole.

Unless we strike it lucky with a Klopp (and even within that time they got a shit hot DOF that massively improved recruitment), there's a limit and caveat to everything we do.
Great post.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 09:04 AM
Patty_b
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
Any manager who came in, spoke positively, cleared out some garbage, promoted a load of youth players who genuinely seem to respect him and performed superbly, got the front 3 scoring, and was still in with a shout for 4th place despite a horrendous series of injuries, I'd want to be given two full seasons before starting again. Not two half seasons.
That's not to say I wouldn't have reservations, as I do now. I just couldn't care less that he used to play for us.
Because people (not you) are still clinging to the idea that there are easy answers and cast-iron guarantees out there, and there just aren't.


Bang on.

The squads weaker than it was last season, but that's due to lack of replacements while binning off players that need to be binned off to bring the replacements required in. (Not that I have any confidence in the hierarchy bringing in any replacements, but that would be the same under any manager.)

Thank £#%&! Ole has got the best out of Rashford, Fred and The Scottish Player, and introduced Williams and Greenwood into the first team.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 09:13 AM
dunk
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlo
a shit builder can get all the latest tools he wants he will still be a shit builder.
this is the next stage of this ole experiment...

do you actually think he knows how to set up a team, a plan b, an instant tactic change to solve a deficiency that has appeared during a game. look at his subs for £#%&!s sake.

63' if drawing - poorest player on the pitch in midfield off for periera or lingard
if losing - double sub periera/lingard + mata
77' - 81' Greenwood for James
Yes. He's proven it on several occasions you dolt.

Subs wise he's got little to no option, the subs he makes are the only subs he could make, and most times he's probably reluctant to make them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
It's not. It's just that we are close to our own players and see their faults more. Everton fans probably say the same when they see Davies and Schnederlin on the team sheets.
No, it really is. We may have 1 or 2 better players here and there, but the quality and depth overall in attack and midfield has us behind most in the PL, outside of the bottom 4 or 5 tbh. We didn't have a single actual midfielder or senior striker on the bench Sunday, not one. We had to turn to the ageing 'number 10' Mata and 18 year old Greenwood in an attempt to change it as they were the only options.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 09:24 AM
Finport Red
 
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He shouldn't have been given the manager's job before the end of last season, and he shouldn't be sacked before the end of this one.

If Woodward's inability/lack of genuine desire to bring in new players continues through to the end of this transfer window, what top manager would even want to come in to a shambles of a club, run by a man that really hasn't a clue about football and whose only interest is ensuring sufficient funds are there each year to pay dividends to the owners?
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 09:32 AM
andyroo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finport Red
He shouldn't have been given the manager's job before the end of last season, and he shouldn't be sacked before the end of this one.

If Woodward's inability/lack of genuine desire to bring in new players continues through to the end of this transfer window, what top manager would even want to come in to a shambles of a club, run by a man that really hasn't a clue about football and whose only interest is ensuring sufficient funds are there each year to pay dividends to the owners?
And whose only responsibility.

Any other club would have sacked Woodward or at least taken those responsibilities off him by now. The Glazers either don't care or worse, actually approve.
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 09:48 AM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Yes. He's proven it on several occasions you dolt.

Subs wise he's got little to no option, the subs he makes are the only subs he could make, and most times he's probably reluctant to make them.



No, it really is. We may have 1 or 2 better players here and there, but the quality and depth overall in attack and midfield has us behind most in the PL, outside of the bottom 4 or 5 tbh. We didn't have a single actual midfielder or senior striker on the bench Sunday, not one. We had to turn to the ageing 'number 10' Mata and 18 year old Greenwood in an attempt to change it as they were the only options.
Strength in depth maybe, just maybe. I agree our options are shit butyou don't think other teams have similar problems?Everton are playing Kean as their first choice striker. One year older than Greenwood. Delph in midfield. One year younger than Mata. As is the 'ageing' Walcott. Surely we're not now saying Watford and Villa have better squads than us?
 
Unread 22-01-2020, 09:56 AM
Stickman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenwen
Strength in depth maybe, just maybe, but quality of player no chance. Or at least perceived quality. Surely we're not now saying Watford and Villa have better squads than us? Everton are playing Kean as their first choice striker. One year older than Greenwood. Delph in midfield. One year younger than Mata. As is the 'ageing' Walcott.
If we went down, the same posters would be saying what do you expect etc. our squad is championship level at best etc etc

Expectations lower and further allowances will keep being made because our manager is beloved.

Woody - blinder. A+
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