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Unread 15-09-2021, 12:18 AM
BarryX
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty View Post
^^^^

That's all very well Barry but it doesn't change the fact he looks way out of his depth.

That isn't his fault by the way, but nevertheless how long do we allow sentimentality to override football reality?

I'd give him the opportunity to sign a top level cdm in the winter window and then see how we are at the end of the season.
Still finding his way? He finished number 2 in the toughest league in the world in jusf his second fill season, and was a shite goalkeeping performance away from a European trophy. Way out of his depth? I don't think so. Sure he needs to do a better job in the CL, but take a look at those stats again and remind me how long it took Ferguson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atticusgrinch View Post
f*** me Barry, seriously.

I'm fairly sure a few of our players will be quite impatient for success, and won't be over the moon at the prospect of hoping the manager learns how to manage at the top level over the next few years.
Didn't seem to put off the most demanding of players from resigning for us, though, did it? Can't see any of the youngsters and English contingent, plus Bruno, Ronnie and Varane, suddenly wanting to leave us if we don't win anything this season. At the end of next season, maybe, but not after just one season of the signings he's just made joining and settling in.
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 12:24 AM
tatty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryX View Post
Still finding his way? He finished number 2 in the toughest league in the world in jusf his second fill season, and was a shite goalkeeping performance away from a European trophy. Way out of his depth? I don't think so. Sure he needs to do a better job in the CL, but take a look at those stats again and remind me how long it took Ferguson.
Ferguson had a solid record in Scotland and was a top manager before he came to us.

Do you really believe Ole is good enough for United? Honestly?

Hypothetically, if Chelsea or City needed a new boss, and had their pick of any manager in the world, i'm pretty sure Ole wouldn't even be in their top 20 choices.

In fact, if Ole wasn't who he was he'd never had got a look in with United.

The Glazer's knew he was a cheap, bomb-proof option that would put fans in a bind because they wouldn't want to turn on a club legend.

He isn't good enough for a top European side and I don't see him becoming good enough...and his next job in football will show that.
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 12:28 AM
BarryX
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem View Post
it's not a one-off and ole is not fergie/busby and never will be. soz. fergie lost to some dire shite in europe as well, but there's really no excuse for tonight. we will struggle to finish top two in the league or the cl group. we needed two dms and trippier. we still need two dms and trippier. that isn't ole's fault, but everything else is. it's not on. don't do this to yourselves.
How can you possibly know he's not going to follow in their footsteps and bring us some serious glory in the coming years? If there's one thing we've learnt from history is that our most successful managers are given plenty of time to get it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty View Post
Ferguson had a solid record in Scotland and was a top manager before he came to us.

Do you really believe Ole is good enough for United? Honestly?
Busby hadn't managed anyone before he took over, though. Neither did Zidane, in the modern era, before he went on to win more Champion's Leagues than any other manager before or after.

I absolutely do believe Ole is good enough for the job, in a large part because I'm sure Fergie supported his appointment. His away record, our position last year and his commitment to playing exciting football all add to my belief that he's the right man for the job (at least for another 14 months, if not more).

On and Ole in.
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 12:42 AM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryX View Post
How can you possibly know he's not going to follow in their footsteps and bring us some serious glory in the coming years? If there's one thing we've learnt from history is that our most successful managers are given plenty of time to get it right.



Busby hadn't managed anyone before he took over, though. Neither did Zidane, in the modern era, before he went on to win more Champion's Leagues than any other manager before or after.

I absolutely do believe Ole is good enough for the job, in a large part because I'm sure Fergie supported his appointment. His away record, our position last year and his commitment to playing exciting football all add to my belief that he's the right man for the job (at least for another 14 months, if not more).

On and Ole in.
if there's one thing we've learned from history, it's not that managers just need time to turn into busby or fergie. I'd give ole longer, but don't kid yourself.

if there's another thing we've learned, it's that fergie's support doesn't stop a manager from moyesing it up.
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 12:46 AM
tatty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryX View Post
Busby hadn't managed anyone before he took over, though. Neither did Zidane, in the modern era, before he went on to win more Champion's Leagues than any other manager before or after.

I absolutely do believe Ole is good enough for the job, in a large part because I'm sure Fergie supported his appointment. His away record, our position last year and his commitment to playing exciting football all add to my belief that he's the right man for the job (at least for another 14 months, if not more).

On and Ole in.

Busby took over United over 75 years ago, i'm not sure there is much in the way of modern relevance.

Zidane was given 2 years in charge of RM's B team before being allowed to take over the first team.

In the equivalent period to Ole's:

Won: Champion's League
2nd: La Liga
Won: World Club Cup
Won: La Liga
Won: Champion's League
Won: UEFA Super Cup
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 01:09 AM
BarryX
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
if there's one thing we've learned from history, it's not that managers just need time to turn into busby or fergie. I'd give ole longer, but don't kid yourself.

if there's another thing we've learned, it's that fergie's support doesn't stop a manager from moyesing it up.
Moyse wasn't Ferguson's or the club's first choice though and when hindsight either shouldn't have been appointed or given more than 8 months (I'd have gone for the former, as am sure would most here). But he came on board and tore up the structure of what had been left by Ferguson, just as Jose did things his way.
Ole is far different. He's bringing stability and the tradition of the way things ought to have been done. The United way No guarantee he'll succeed, but I'd much rather we support him than bring in the current flavour of the month (again and again until we win something).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
Busby took over United over 75 years ago, i'm not sure there is much in the way of modern relevance.

Zidane was given 2 years in charge of RM's B team before being allowed to take over the first team.

In the equivalent period to Ole's:

Won: Champion's League
2nd: La Liga
Won: World Club Cup
Won: La Liga
Won: Champion's League
Won: UEFA Super Cup
Zidane was officilly advising Perez and in charge of the sporting side of the club from 2009, years before he got into coaching. He was part of Madrid's set up for ages and seamlessly moved into the management role, in a club whose existing set up he was already totally familiar with, and with players who he knew inside out. Madrid had also won the CL a couple of seasons before he took over and he was gifted a sublime squad (Ronaldo, Bale, Kroos, Benzema, Ramos and Varane etc). Totally different set of circumstances to Ole when he took over United.

Last edited by BarryX; 15-09-2021 at 01:23 AM.
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 02:52 AM
Stickman
 
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really don't want to look back on this unique opportunity to have Ronaldo's final good years wasted. The time really is now for this squad, it stacks up against any squad in Europe, even if the midfield is lacking.

The attacking depth is now borderline absurd and we've signed one of the best defenders in the world at his peak.

Last edited by Stickman; 15-09-2021 at 03:57 AM.
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 03:09 AM
shenwen
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty View Post
Busby took over United over 75 years ago, i'm not sure there is much in the way of modern relevance.
Desperation to start trying to draw parallels with 1945 ffs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky*** View Post
This wasn't an isolated, one-off, rarity. This happens on the regular when we play away in the champions league these days. He's a lovely guy, but an elite level manager he is not.

And now with the players he has at his disposal, these performances are going to be quite rightly scrutinised.
Not sure how this can be argued against.

This wasn't a one off and once again it was a series of baffling moves. We shat ourselves after AWB got sent off. Took off two creative players (theoretically in Sancho's case) and went to five at the back. Against Young Boys. We said come at us and they diid. Then God knows the logic of bringing on Lingard and Matic. Would it not have been better to try with Beek for longer?
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 03:44 AM
Stickman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryX View Post
He needs to be in the mix, for sure. QF of the Champions League and within a few points of first place at a minimum. If he gets us close enough, then I'd still give him the first quarter of next season as well before even considering sacking him (i.e a full pre-season with Ronnie and the defensive midfielder we need to round off the current crop).

At the end of the day, all of our teams from our glory days - from the Busby Babes through to the last team that won the CL - had their off days. No manager made perfect selections or got the subs right in each and every match. Tonight may well have been the result of a comedown from a truly euphoric weekend, and hopefully just a blip (and a truly unfortunate one at that).

I say balls to the Ole out brigade and the tantrums over a solitary loss. Love Utd, love Ole, love SAF (who no doubt supports him in his role) and hate the Glazers.

On.
 
Unread 15-09-2021, 08:03 AM
AK14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
really don't want to look back on this unique opportunity to have Ronaldo's final good years wasted. The time really is now for this squad, it stacks up against any squad in Europe, even if the midfield is lacking.

The attacking depth is now borderline absurd and we've signed one of the best defenders in the world at his peak.
Yep

If we’re not right in the mix for both the league and in Europe come the end of the season then Ole needs to go. Probably needs to win something too
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