Are we really about to sell the only player capable of bagging 20 and not replace him?

Originally Posted by utd99

We’re Man Utd; we should always be competing. We should always expect to be competitive because that’s the standard we judge ourselves by. The second 4th becomes acceptable, a semi becomes acceptable, holding our own against the ‘big boys’ become acceptable then that’s our new ‘normal’.

Have we learned nothing from Arsenal?

That's exactly where we are.

Hate to break it to you.

Originally Posted by Cream

That's exactly where we are.

Hate to break it to you.

Only if we accept it. It's far better to keep the bar high each year - even if it's unrealistic- and fail, than to lower it to mediocrity and achieve.

Originally Posted by utd99

Only if we accept it. It's far better to keep the bar high each year - even if it's unrealistic- and fail, than to lower it to mediocrity and achieve.

Meh.

Arsenal fans tried it.

They've given up now. Reality bites.

Originally Posted by utd99

I refer to Rashford as a kid too.

You want your cake and eat it too. You bang on about “perspective”, but only want to talk about actual age. When it comes to experience at the top level of football you’re strangely silent. Someone might be tempted to think that it somehow doesn’t serve your narrative of representing Rashford as plucky kid trying to break into the first team. He’s played almost 200 games for club and country; is asking for obvious and consistent improvement -not finished article- too much to ask for?

James on the other hand has been playing in the second division and was made up at the idea of joining £#%&!ing Leeds a few months ago. The actual age may be the same , but the footballing age is clearly very different.



I do look at the whole team, this just happens to be a thread about the forwards. What I don’t do is use other players to deflect from criticism of a player I’m strangely over protective of. Wan-Bissaka clearly has strengths and weaknesses. Great tackler, less useful going forward, passing mediocre. Pereira, empty shirt atm. The Scottish Player is raw, but I’m confident he’ll come good - he has a great attitude and works his socks off. Pogba is Pogba; he’s like the yin and yang of exceptional play followed by pub quality moments.

None of this answers the question of why Rashford hasn’t pushed on anywhere near as much as he should have.



I think you might be responding to a point I never made mate. At no point have I ever suggested Lukaku was the answer to anything aside from how far a first touch could go before it becomes a pass.



We’re Man Utd; we should always be competing. We should always expect to be competitive because that’s the standard we judge ourselves by. The second 4th becomes acceptable, a semi becomes acceptable, holding our own against the ‘big boys’ become acceptable then that’s our new ‘normal’.

Have we learned nothing from Arsenal?

What do you mean? I should say Rashford has less potential because he's played a lot of games? He's still young. I haven't denied he was poor yesterday or indeed of late, but he's still a 21yo striker with lots of potential and talk of him being in a sink or swim moment is simply nonsense. He will be a United player vying for a forward place at the start of next season too. Let's hope he gets his 15 this year.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

What do you mean? I should say Rashford has less potential because he's played a lot of games? He's still young. I haven't denied he was poor yesterday or indeed of late, but he's still a 21yo striker with lots of potential and talk of him being in a sink or swim moment is simply nonsense. He will be a United player vying for a forward place at the start of next season too. Let's hope he gets his 15 this year.

He is still young, no one's denying that. I'm still not sure why you insist on pretending he has no experience though. Surely there has to be a time when we stop talking only about potential and start talking about what's in front of you; in actual games, here and now.

Originally Posted by utd99

He is still young, no one's denying that. I'm still not sure why you insist on pretending he has no experience though. Surely there has to be a time when we stop talking only about potential and start talking about what's in front of you; in actual games, here and now.

Have never said anything of the kind. But him having experience doesn't change the fact he's only 21.

He's potentially 4-5 years from his peak, barring injuries. That's why I'm not worried about him yet.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Have never said anything of the kind. But him having experience doesn't change the fact he's only 21.

He's potentially 4-5 years from his peak, barring injuries. That's why I'm not worried about him yet.

Well unless his performance trajectory starts to turn upwards at some point his 'peak' is going to fairly unremarkable.

Originally Posted by utd99

Well unless his performance trajectory starts to turn upwards at some point his 'peak' is going to fairly unremarkable.

He needs to score more goals. He's a nuisance for defences and he scored more last season than ever before. But the numbers need to keep going up. He gives you loads in terms of movement and pressure, but honing his craft as a goalscorer will be important.

15 league

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

He needs to score more goals. He's a nuisance for defences and he scored more last season than ever before. But the numbers need to keep going up. He gives you loads in terms of movement and pressure, but honing his craft as a goalscorer will be important.

It's the only thing. The rest is just about keeping Neville, Carragher and the rest of the talking heads in a job.

Originally Posted by utd99

It's the only thing. The rest is just about keeping Neville, Carragher and the rest of the talking heads in a job.

Will remind you of that next time Martial isn't doing enough running

I’d like to see him go back to basics and it’s what he needs at this moment in time imo.

Make the runs in behind like he did in his first 18 months-2 years of first team football and stop trying to be the English Cristiano because I don’t think he’ll ever be that type of player.

He says he doesn’t want to be just an out and out striker but I think his best attributes are that of an out and out striker. He hasn’t got the technical ability or the football intelligence to play as a multi functional forward at the top level imo and if he concentrated on being a goal scorer I think we’d see the best of him.

Originally Posted by AK14

I’d like to see him go back to basics and it’s what he needs at this moment in time imo.

Make the runs in behind like he did in his first 18 months-2 years of first team football and stop trying to be the English Cristiano because I don’t think he’ll ever be that type of player.

He says he doesn’t want to be just an out and out striker but I think his best attributes are that of an out and out striker. He hasn’t got the technical ability or the football intelligence to play as a multi functional forward at the top level imo and if he concentrated on being a goal scorer I think we’d see the best of him.

Disagree about the technical ability, but certainly question marks over his intelligence in possession, although I think that can develop. He definitely has plenty to his game, but I remember very early in his career - maybe even his debut - LvG told him that when he wants to score he needs to not move around so much and play the width of the penalty box.

I'm still not sure he's really appreciated that advice. On Saturday he was starting in an attack with Daniel James, Juan Mata and Andres Pereira. He should have seen himself as carrying the goalscoring responsibility and made himself more of a reference point. Yet too often he came deep or wide and he sometimes just gets in the way. It's fine when Martial is up front and hopefully when Greenwood gets games, but in games such as Saturday we need Rashford to be more focused on being a striker and being sharper to chances.

When he finally started playing a more fixed role in the last half hour he got more opportunities, albeit half chances. His movement is decent out of possession which is why he always seems to find himself in space but the composure is poor at the moment.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Disagree about the technical ability, but certainly question marks over his intelligence in possession, although I think that can develop. He definitely has plenty to his game, but I remember very early in his career - maybe even his debut - LvG told him that when he wants to score he needs to not move around so much and play the width of the penalty box.

I'm still not sure he's really appreciated that advice. On Saturday he was starting in an attack with Daniel James, Juan Mata and Andres Pereira. He should have seen himself as carrying the goalscoring responsibility and made himself more of a reference point. Yet too often he came deep or wide and he sometimes just gets in the way. It's fine when Martial is up front and hopefully when Greenwood gets games, but in games such as Saturday we need Rashford to be more focused on being a striker and being sharper to chances.

When he finally started playing a more fixed role in the last half hour he got more opportunities, albeit half chances. His movement is decent out of possession which is why he always seems to find himself in space but the composure is poor at the moment.

Well he’s got the right manager. Whether he or Martial are teachable is another thing. My hope is that one of those two or Greenwood really grasp the nettle and play the way Ole wants them to. Clearly Martial hasn’t learned much from either van Gaal or Mourinho about playing wide.

Originally Posted by utd99

Well he’s got the right manager. Whether he or Martial are teachable is another thing. My hope is that one of those two or Greenwood really grasp the nettle and play the way Ole wants them to. Clearly Martial hasn’t learned much from either van Gaal or Mourinho about playing wide.

I think Ole is good for both of them. You get the impression they're both his type of players, whereas I never thought Mourinho would like Martial and that was apparent immediately when he changed his shirt number as some type of message.

Ole's qualities as a coach are unknown but as you suggest if there's one thing he should be able to do it's hone Rashford as a goalscorer.

https://youtu.be/edmJlMJDp1U

(Agree btw).

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

He needs to score more goals. He's a nuisance for defences and he scored more last season than ever before. But the numbers need to keep going up. He gives you loads in terms of movement and pressure, but honing his craft as a goalscorer will be important.

15 league

Hasn't he already scored a brace?

Should piss 15 goals. You'd expect 30 between him and Martial.

As for coaching: let's not pretend for one second that you need to teach these lads how to score a goal. He knows full well already what he has to do.

Lacking composure, I'll grant you.

Writing off seasons 4 games in.

United!

What a joke we are becoming, seriously.

Originally Posted by Cream

Hasn't he already scored a brace?

Should piss 15 goals. You'd expect 30 between him and Martial.

As for coaching: let's not pretend for one second that you need to teach these lads how to score a goal. He knows full well already what he has to do.

Lacking composure, I'll grant you.

Well we'll need 50 between him and martial. Because who else aside from James is gonna score?

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I'm sure Rashford's 12 goals will be more than enough for us to scrape into 8th

Looks like 8th might have been optimistic.

Some absolute £#%&!ing top notch delusion in this thread btw.

9 goals in 8 games.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Looks like 8th might have been optimistic.

Some absolute £#%&!ing top notch delusion in this thread btw.

9 goals in 8 games.

After four on the first day

Edit - mean