Carrick

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

You seem to have ignored the repeated lines I wrote about his form going to pot since '09, & that if the side plays well, then so does he. He never, ever drove Utd on in that period of success. He wont do it now either. If we had a settled defence, our two best wingers, an in form Rooney, & a proper box to box midfielder next to him, you'd see a better Carrick. Simples. As it is, he's been shit a lot of the time because he playing alongside Gibson, Park & Fletcher, all players that simply wont drive United on to great things & are basically just good squad players.

Are you the same person who said you weren't making excuses for him?

His form has been poor for 18 months. What was the excuse last season when Valencia, Nani and Rooney were all flying...

Carrick has gone from being an excellent passer of the ball, who was capable of springing us into attack and creating goals, into being an ultra cautious midfielder who looks like he is afraid of losing possession.

And the shit Fletcher has outperformed him in the 2 seasons prior to this one.

Originally Posted by Fountz

Invaluable | Define Invaluable at Dictionary.com
beyond calculable or appraisable value; of inestimable worth; priceless: ; dictionary.reference.com/browse/invaluable - Cached - Similar

:shakehead:

go on then, quantify the value of carrick's ball retention and interception excellence

people knock the midfield because they don't like the way it functions. this tends to ignore the fact that it largely functions the way it is supposed to within the team shape. it hasn't been as dynamic as it could have been this season, but there again - and despite the good number of goals scored by the team as a whole - the goals united score from central midfield has been a target of criticism for a long time, particular throughout carrick's 5 seasons at the club. there have been plenty of problems at the back with injury crisisisis in recent seasons, yet the defensive record remains consistently good. people should take that into account when assessing carrick's part in what has continued to be a successful united team.

I like Carrick...thought he played well at the weekend.
I'd just like him to show a bit more from an attacking point of view.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

go on then, quantify the value of carrick's ball retention and interception excellence

people knock the midfield because they don't like the way it functions. this tends to ignore the fact that it largely functions the way it is supposed to within the team shape. it hasn't been as dynamic as it could have been this season, but there again - and despite the good number of goals scored by the team as a whole - the goals united score from central midfield has been a target of criticism for a long time, particular throughout carrick's 5 seasons at the club. there have been plenty of problems at the back with injury crisisisis in recent seasons, yet the defensive record remains consistently good. people should take that into account when assessing carrick's part in what has continued to be a successful united team.

haven't we only won 5 aways this year? you're a lucky @#%&! though throb because you're going to be able to peddle this "but we're still successful with the current squad blah blah" stuff for a while it seems.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Are you the same person who said you weren't making excuses for him?

His form has been poor for 18 months. What was the excuse last season when Valencia, Nani and Rooney were all flying...

Carrick has gone from being an excellent passer of the ball, who was capable of springing us into attack and creating goals, into being an ultra cautious midfielder who looks like he is afraid of losing possession.

And the shit Fletcher has outperformed him in the 2 seasons prior to this one.

How can I make excuses for someone I'm saying has played shit?

His short comings are well documented post Rome '09, but I'll say it again, he's a player who will play at the level of the team. If you think Utd were flying last term you need a visit to the Dr's mate.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

How can I make excuses for someone I'm saying has played shit?

His short comings are well documented post Rome '09, but I'll say it again, he's a player who will play at the level of the team. If you think Utd were flying last term you need a visit to the Dr's mate.

I said Nani, Valencia and Rooney were.

Which was amongst your excuses for Carrick's continued poor performances.

Originally Posted by believe

haven't we only won 5 aways this year? you're a lucky @#%&! though throb because you're going to be able to peddle this "but we're still successful with the current squad blah blah" stuff for a while it seems.

i know yeah. i've got so much new material as well, just never get a chance to use it.

Originally Posted by Coracao

I said Nani, Valencia and Rooney were.

Which was amongst your excuses for Carrick's continued poor performances.

No, I said "If we had a settled defence, our two best wingers, an in form Rooney, & a proper box to box midfielder next to him, you'd see a better Carrick."

Not Nani, Valencia & Rooney. That's only half of what I was explaining.

If you're not going to comprehend the other half of the argument, it's unlikely you'll acknowledge why I think Carrick's dropped off in terms of form, but could & in all likelihood would return to form with the right circumstances.

Utd are simply nowhere near as good a side now, or last year, as we were from '06 - '09 when Carrick was a far more positive player. He was more positive, because he was playing with better players & had the best defence in Europe behind him virtually every week.

If you think that's an excuse, as opposed to opinion, you're probably pissing in the wind.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

No, I said "If we had a settled defence, our two best wingers, an in form Rooney, & a proper box to box midfielder next to him, you'd see a better Carrick."

Not Nani, Valencia & Rooney. That's only half of what I was explaining.

If you're not going to comprehend the other half of the argument, it's unlikely you'll acknowledge why I think Carrick's dropped off in terms of form, but could & in all likelihood would return to form with the right circumstances.

Utd are simply nowhere near as good a side now, or last year, as we were from '06 - '09 when Carrick was a far more positive player. He was more positive, because he was playing with better players & had the best defence in Europe behind him virtually every week.

If you think that's an excuse, as opposed to opinion, you're probably pissing in the wind.

I just think your argument is piss poor to be frank.

Nani, Valencia and Rooney all had good seasons last year.

Darren Fletcher who you labelled 'shit', was one of the best midfielders in europe last season. He was in the PFA team of the year, in case you have forgotten. This season he's been poor.

We had the best defensive record in the league too.

Yet, Carrick was poor.

Originally Posted by Coracao

moot

Good word.

Originally Posted by Coracao

I just think your argument is piss poor to be frank.

Nani, Valencia and Rooney all had good seasons last year.

Darren Fletcher who you labelled 'shit', was one of the best midfielders in europe last season. He was in the PFA team of the year, in case you have forgotten. This season he's been poor.

We had the best defensive record in the league too.

Yet, Carrick was poor.

Are you on a WUM ? Fletcher might have made the PFA team, but he's not fit to lace Scholes' boots when it comes to creativity, neither is Carrick. But the styles of Scholes & Carrick as a partnership, & Carrick & Fletcher are always going to be polar opposites. Darren Fletcher was not one of the best midfielders in Europe :shakehead:

I think my argument that Carrick plays better when surrounded by better players is water tight tbf.... yours that Darren Fletcher was one of the best midfielders in Europe might be the funniest thing I've read on here for a while though

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Are you on a WUM ? Fletcher might have made the PFA team, but he's not fit to lace Scholes' boots when it comes to creativity, neither is Carrick. But the styles of Scholes & Carrick as a partnership, & Carrick & Fletcher are always going to be polar opposites. Darren Fletcher was not one of the best midfielders in Europe :shakehead:

I think my argument that Carrick plays better when surrounded by better players is water tight tbf.... yours that Darren Fletcher was one of the best midfielders in Europe might be the funniest thing I've read on here for a while though

So, you don't think Darren Fletcher was one of the best midfield performers in Europe last season. Despite being voted into the team of the year by his fellow professionals, in the most difficult league in Europe.

Name me 10 players who were better in central midfield last season. This should be quite interesting.

Originally Posted by Coracao

So, you don't think Darren Fletcher was one of the best midfield performers in Europe last season. Despite being voted into the team of the year by his fellow professionals, in the most difficult league in Europe.

Name me 10 players who were better in central midfield last season. This should be quite interesting.

All of Bayern's, Barca's, Inter's & Chelsea's for a start. So there's about 12.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

All of Bayern's, Barca's, Inter's & Chelsea's for a start. So there's about 12.

I'll give you;

Xavi, Iniesta, Cambiasso, Schweinsteiger, Fabregas, Busquets.

Sneijder and Lampard play a different role within their sides.

Obi Mikel? Van Bommel? Essien? Motta? Stankovic?

They were no better at all.

If we had a settled defence, our two best wingers, an in form Rooney, & a proper box to box midfielder next to him, you'd see a better Carrick.

Bloody nora. In those circumstances I'm pretty sure I could look a player too.

The fact is Carrick has the goods to be a good footballer without the need to require 8 other players to make him look good. The issue is he just doesnt do it. IMO central midfield players need to be able to run the game. I dont think he can do that. He certainly doesnt have the attributes to win us a game nor to pick up the side when others arent performing. Again, these are some of the most important requirements of a central midfield player.

Originally Posted by PaulParkersPubes

Bloody nora. In those circumstances I'm pretty sure I could look a player too.

The fact is Carrick has the goods to be a good footballer without the need to require 8 other players to make him look good. The issue is he just doesnt do it. IMO central midfield players need to be able to run the game. I dont think he can do that. He certainly doesnt have the attributes to win us a game nor to pick up the side when others arent performing. Again, these are some of the most important requirements of a central midfield player.

Pretty much.

Originally Posted by Coracao

I'll give you;

Xavi, Iniesta, Cambiasso, Schweinsteiger, Fabregas, Busquets.

Sneijder and Lampard play a different role within their sides.

Obi Mikel? Van Bommel? Essien? Motta? Stankovic?

They were no better at all.

No better at all, yet who has the trophies ? Fletcher had a good season, but so did James Milner who also got in your select PFA Team Of The Year. Didn't make him one of the best in Europe. Fletcher in the big games was as effective as Carrick, City games aside - which were, as we know, massive games rather than big. Suffice to say, when we played Bayern, Chelsea etc, he was nowhere. Has Fletcher come in for the same stick for being half the player this term that he was last time, as Carrick has ? Only from one or two. But he was feted due to missing that Rome final, as opposed to being dismantled with the rest of them on the day. So he seems to avoid the same fate.

Does Fletcher run a midfield ? Does Anderson ? Did Hargreaves ? The only midfielder we have capable of running a game is Scholes. Some people seem to miss the point of a team & the no. of it's parts etc...

BVM hates fletch tbf

fletcher was outstanding for large parts of last season

love the white essien

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon;2402960[B

]No better at all, yet who has the trophies ?

lulz. You're better than that rubbish.

Fletcher had a good season, but so did James Milner who also got in your select PFA Team Of The Year. Didn't make him one of the best in Europe. Fletcher in the big games was as effective as Carrick, City games aside - which were, as we know, massive games rather than big. Suffice to say, when we played Bayern, Chelsea etc, he was nowhere.

Fletcher was voted motm against Arsenal,Spurs, and Chelsea by people on this very forum.

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showth...ht=motm&page=3

Has Fletcher come in for the same stick for being half the player this term that he was last time, as Carrick has ? Only from one or two. But he was feted due to missing that Rome final, as opposed to being dismantled with the rest of them on the day. So he seems to avoid the same fate.

Fletcher hasn't been as poor for as long as Carrick. If he continues for another 12 months, he'll no doubt get some grief off people. His performances for the two previous seasons have cut him some slack.

Does Fletcher run a midfield ? Does Anderson ? Did Hargreaves ? The only midfielder we have capable of running a game is Scholes. Some people seem to miss the point of a team & the no. of it's parts etc...

We need new midfielders. Pretty much everyone acknowledges this.

i didnt start this thread

wtf