Ole has to be sacked TONIGHT

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Only half the players had been sold. And tbh I think he did well to get rid of so many given the dynamics above him.



Amazing how messed up dressing room dynamics can make everyone look shit.

And I’m pretty sure cavani and ronaldo were not part of any ole plan. Yet another united manager going with the better than nothing line when the club have £#%&!ed up their plans.

If ole had his way, we’d probably have players like haaland, trippier and neves in the squad, and another 6 players sold.



balls.



Like Van gaal said when manager, outsiders can create a negative narrative around a club which can then impact the players and give them an excuse to turn on a manager when there’s a downturn in form and the pressure rises. That negative narrative was created all through ole’s time. Ole took over a shit heap yet managed third, second, a European final in two full seasons in the midst of a huge fundamental rebuild of the squad, and the narrative is the manager is shit and should be sacked. Utterly mental, and united fans deserve this mess.

We talk about the culture above the manager undemanding previous manager’s authority with the players. But this time it was the media and many united fans who undermined the manager’s authority with their negative narrative. And here we are again.



But what does make sense would be a small faction poisoning the dressing room against the manager this season, joined by the fringe players whose noses are out of joint. This destroys the dressing room and gets the manager the sack. The rest of the players then feel resentment against the ringleader/s getting the manager the sack, continuing the dressing room problems and thus not getting a new manager bounce.

This problem takes management, not coaching or tactics.



As we sacked him when he was only halfway through the rebuild job, we’ll never know. And the reason he was only halfway through is the bottleneck above the manager when it comes to signing and selling players. That provided a bloated squad, full of players he didn’t trust, and only a group of 15 or 16 that he wanted to rely on (can probably add Sancho and Varane to that list). And he was probably right to exclude the rest, probably because he identified a poor attitude or lack of what he/we wanted, but couldn’t get rid and replace them quickly enough because of the bottleneck above.

Something happened since the end of last season which provided a catalysts for those players outside that trusted 15 or 18 to get him out. Which suggests it only needed one or two influential players within the trusted group to act as the catalyst for poisoning the dressing room and destroying team spirit.

I would guess when the team hit a blip, the increased expectations and the negative narrative around the manager influenced a few first big players to turn. I would guess ronaldo was likely the catalyst, along with Bruno and maybe cavani. 2 players of which were never in ole’s plans for the rebuild, or his general philosophy. Fringe players get on board, divisions erupt. Spirit gone. Shambolic football.



Ironically, ole got a tune out of Fred. He was useless under mourninho. I don’t think Fred or The Scottish Player were in the first 20 players to get rid of. There’s still 6 or 7 priority sales ahead of them now, and both can be useful as squad players. And whatever the pogba situation is, it would £#%&! any manager. I think ole managed it better than Mourinho. And we were so close to that problem going.



I think that was largely down to ole not having a big managerial reputation. If conte had taken over from mourinho and got second and a European final in his second season, whilst doing everything else ole did, those same people would have been saying what a good job he was doing and how he has us on the right track.



The main reason ole was sacked IMO. And why Guardiola would be carried off in a straight jacket after a season in the job. He nearly cracked up at city ffs.



I get the impression some people and the media would have still been saying this if he won the league.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

Only half the players had been sold. And tbh I think he did well to get rid of so many given the dynamics above him.



Amazing how messed up dressing room dynamics can make everyone look shit.

And I’m pretty sure cavani and ronaldo were not part of any ole plan. Yet another united manager going with the better than nothing line when the club have £#%&!ed up their plans.

If ole had his way, we’d probably have players like haaland, trippier and neves in the squad, and another 6 players sold.



balls.



Like Van gaal said when manager, outsiders can create a negative narrative around a club which can then impact the players and give them an excuse to turn on a manager when there’s a downturn in form and the pressure rises. That negative narrative was created all through ole’s time. Ole took over a shit heap yet managed third, second, a European final in two full seasons in the midst of a huge fundamental rebuild of the squad, and the narrative is the manager is shit and should be sacked. Utterly mental, and united fans deserve this mess.

We talk about the culture above the manager undemanding previous manager’s authority with the players. But this time it was the media and many united fans who undermined the manager’s authority with their negative narrative. And here we are again.



But what does make sense would be a small faction poisoning the dressing room against the manager this season, joined by the fringe players whose noses are out of joint. This destroys the dressing room and gets the manager the sack. The rest of the players then feel resentment against the ringleader/s getting the manager the sack, continuing the dressing room problems and thus not getting a new manager bounce.

This problem takes management, not coaching or tactics.



As we sacked him when he was only halfway through the rebuild job, we’ll never know. And the reason he was only halfway through is the bottleneck above the manager when it comes to signing and selling players. That provided a bloated squad, full of players he didn’t trust, and only a group of 15 or 16 that he wanted to rely on (can probably add Sancho and Varane to that list). And he was probably right to exclude the rest, probably because he identified a poor attitude or lack of what he/we wanted, but couldn’t get rid and replace them quickly enough because of the bottleneck above.

Something happened since the end of last season which provided a catalysts for those players outside that trusted 15 or 18 to get him out. Which suggests it only needed one or two influential players within the trusted group to act as the catalyst for poisoning the dressing room and destroying team spirit.

I would guess when the team hit a blip, the increased expectations and the negative narrative around the manager influenced a few first big players to turn. I would guess ronaldo was likely the catalyst, along with Bruno and maybe cavani. 2 players of which were never in ole’s plans for the rebuild, or his general philosophy. Fringe players get on board, divisions erupt. Spirit gone. Shambolic football.



Ironically, ole got a tune out of Fred. He was useless under mourninho. I don’t think Fred or The Scottish Player were in the first 20 players to get rid of. There’s still 6 or 7 priority sales ahead of them now, and both can be useful as squad players. And whatever the pogba situation is, it would £#%&! any manager. I think ole managed it better than Mourinho. And we were so close to that problem going.



I think that was largely down to ole not having a big managerial reputation. If conte had taken over from mourinho and got second and a European final in his second season, whilst doing everything else ole did, those same people would have been saying what a good job he was doing and how he has us on the right track.



The main reason ole was sacked IMO. And why Guardiola would be carried off in a straight jacket after a season in the job. He nearly cracked up at city ffs.



I get the impression some people and the media would have still been saying this if he won the league.

Then what happened?

I can't wait for jammy to discover the fairer sex.

Great post Jammy. Ignore atticus and the rest of the ADD naysayers, you keep doing what you're doing. Some of us can read more than 1 sentence posts, even if they are made up of unevenly spaced paragraphs.

Originally Posted by atticusgrinch

I can't wait for jammy to discover the fairer sex.

Superfluous.

Are we really throwing “well never know’s” in relation to chances of longer term success under Ole?

That’s commitment to your man alright

People bumped this thread lol.

The discord in the squad is down to oles non confrontational style and his #@&%!ed transfer policy.

Dunk the dunce saying he now thinks Ole has done a fantastic job is just trolling. Hes always thought Ole done a fantastic job because dunk is dumber than bread.

Originally Posted by saffers

People bumped this thread lol.

The discord in the squad is down to oles non confrontational style and his #@&%!ed transfer policy.

Dunk the dunce saying he now thinks Ole has done a fantastic job is just trolling. Hes always thought Ole done a fantastic job because dunk is dumber than bread.

Originally Posted by windy waffles

No one is gonna read all that.

Noted. I won’t multiquote ever again

Originally Posted by saffers

People bumped this thread lol.

The discord in the squad is down to oles non confrontational style and his #@&%!ed transfer policy.

Dunk the dunce saying he now thinks Ole has done a fantastic job is just trolling. Hes always thought Ole done a fantastic job because dunk is dumber than bread.

I like you Saffers but you will never understand .You represent the triumph of the Spectacle.Google Guy Debord for bg

You are divorced tfrom my experience as a United fan ,from euro champs 68 to the 2nd division to the Fergoz years to the present toxic internet witchunting and bedwetting . I understand that the world has moved on but like a lot of shit it's not for the better except for those with snouts in the trough

Following utd was always a laugh even through the darkest days.It no longer is. Yet another social media drive by statistic. The total victory of commodification

Originally Posted by rubbernecker

I like you Saffers but you will never understand .You represent the triumph of the Spectacle.Google Guy Debord for bg

You are divorced tfrom my experience as a United fan ,from euro champs 68 to the 2nd division to the Fergoz years to the present toxic internet witchunting and bedwetting . I understand that the world has moved on but like a lot of shit it's not for the better except for those with snouts in the trough

Following utd was always a laugh even through the darkest days.It no longer is. Yet another social media drive by statistic. The total victory of commodification

I don't agree with everything saffers says by any means but he was right about Ole.

I don't buy in to the theory that fans should be unswervingly loyal to their clubs; it's a sport, a substitute for warfare where winning IS everything.

And Ole was never going to be a winner as a manager, there was nothing, literally nothing, in his managerial CV that suggested he should have been anywhere near the club in that capacity.

And even the uber-loyalists would have been having none of it if he didn't have the playing history he had.

He's still a legend in my eyes as a player, and I don't even hold a grudge for his management, other than for the Glazers who cynically manipulated the loyalty of fans.

Originally Posted by tatty

I don't agree with everything saffers says by any means but he was right about Ole.

I don't buy in to the theory that fans should be unswervingly loyal to their clubs; it's a sport, a substitute for warfare where winning IS everything.

And Ole was never going to be a winner as a manager, there was nothing, literally nothing, in his managerial CV that suggested he should have been anywhere near the club in that capacity.

And even the uber-loyalists would have been having none of it if he didn't have the playing history he had.

He's still a legend in my eyes as a player, and I don't even hold a grudge for his management, other than for the Glazers who cynically manipulated the loyalty of fans.

I hear what you're saying Tats and I mean no disrespect to you either but you see Utd through a different lens than the one I look through.

Supporting Utd was never a choice ,bizarre civic pride,loyalty and fun was the job description.Whilst I'm grateful that a lot of that still exists amongst swathes of matchgoers and older fans it cannot be argued that there are a load of e-fans that do not understand that

I feel sad that a lot of you will never Ken that but like I said to Saffers being a Utd fan means something else when it's a corporation . Not the that morals of corrupt butchers over rapacious @#%&!s from Florida are anything g to argue the toss about but it was ours unlike today's bastardised corporate fan culfure

Where the vultures see value ,it necessitates change to ensure those returns are maximised and it's no longer the same thing anymore

Inevitable but sad nonetheless

Originally Posted by rubbernecker

I hear what you're saying Tats and I mean no disrespect to you either but you see Utd through a different lens than the one I look through.

Supporting Utd was never a choice ,bizarre civic pride,loyalty and fun was the job description.Whilst I'm grateful that a lot of that still exists amongst swathes of matchgoers and older fans it cannot be argued that there are a load of e-fans that do not understand that

I feel sad that a lot of you will never Ken that but like I said to Saffers being a Utd fan means something else when it's a corporation . Not the that morals of corrupt butchers over rapacious @#%&!s from Florida are anything g to argue the toss about but it was ours unlike today's bastardised corporate fan culfure

Where the vultures see value ,it necessitates change to ensure those returns are maximised and it's no longer the same thing anymore

Inevitable but sad nonetheless

I do understand fans coming at it from a more 'romantic' (for want of a better word) angle rather than a purely win-at-all-costs.

Up until Fergie left it was never an issue because both sides were happy.

Now neither side is because the football is shit and we're not winning anything.

I join in with the frustrated ranting but the truth is there is nothing we can do from where we are now that other clubs can't do better. Other teams have more money, better managers, better grounds, have more recent success, are challenging for trophies etc etc.

The only was out (imo) is for a change of owners and the replacements having the money to compete.

And that could be years away.

Originally Posted by rubbernecker

I hear what you're saying Tats and I mean no disrespect to you either but you see Utd through a different lens than the one I look through.

Supporting Utd was never a choice ,bizarre civic pride,loyalty and fun was the job description.Whilst I'm grateful that a lot of that still exists amongst swathes of matchgoers and older fans it cannot be argued that there are a load of e-fans that do not understand that

I feel sad that a lot of you will never Ken that but like I said to Saffers being a Utd fan means something else when it's a corporation . Not the that morals of corrupt butchers over rapacious c***s from Florida are anything g to argue the toss about but it was ours unlike today's bastardised corporate fan culfure

Where the vultures see value ,it necessitates change to ensure those returns are maximised and it's no longer the same thing anymore

Inevitable but sad nonetheless

I agree, and sadly I totally agree. I am a (very) old-timer and my views are obviously coloured by nostalgia. I miss how the club was, pre-PLC. I’ll leave it there as I feel a rant developing ...

Rubber calls it perfectly tbh.

Originally Posted by saffers

People bumped this thread lol.

The discord in the squad is down to oles non confrontational style and his #@&%!ed transfer policy.

Dunk the dunce saying he now thinks Ole has done a fantastic job is just trolling. Hes always thought Ole done a fantastic job because dunk is dumber than bread.

Now now, no need to make things up just because our shit @#%&!s are now throwing Ralf under the bus as they did Ole.

I'm sure one day you'll look back on your demented personal campaign and cringe.

Originally Posted by tatty

And Ole was never going to be a winner as a manager, there was nothing, literally nothing, in his managerial CV that suggested he should have been anywhere near the club in that capacity.

Just interested what you've seen on Ralf's CV that's made you feel he's a better fit for the job?

Originally Posted by tatty

I don't agree with everything saffers says by any means but he was right about Ole.

I don't buy in to the theory that fans should be unswervingly loyal to their clubs; it's a sport, a substitute for warfare where winning IS everything.

And Ole was never going to be a winner as a manager, there was nothing, literally nothing, in his managerial CV that suggested he should have been anywhere near the club in that capacity.

And even the uber-loyalists would have been having none of it if he didn't have the playing history he had.

He's still a legend in my eyes as a player, and I don't even hold a grudge for his management, other than for the Glazers who cynically manipulated the loyalty of fans.

Not at all, much more to following your team than that.

Tbh, the whole Ole debacle is probably the final nail in the coffin for me. Some of the things posted virally online about him were a disgrace, I’ve said before but I can’t believe anyone who was their during his playing days could come out with such stuff.

The issue is now if the club gets its act together, there will be no joy to be had knowing a load of e-fan #@&%!s are making coin off it after the shit they’ve been coming out with. Don’t pretend it doesn’t set the agenda across the fan base either, and knowing out hierarchy probably impacts decisions.

I’d love to cave Saffers’ head in obvs.

Originally Posted by saffers

Just in general or because of this lie about me abusing Ole.

Find a single post of mine abusing Ole. Good luck.

Were plenty of times where I had to tell off former Oles*xuals for their disgraceful personal abuse of Ole. Obviously the true believers became the most radical once it became clear to them he was a shitty manager.



This is Oles squad, not Ralfs. Deluded fool.

What campaign? Correctly saying someone isnt up to the job from day 1 isnt a campaign. Thats just called foresight.

For this really pal. Love your work otherwise, big, big fan.

Originally Posted by Tory Dave

For this really pal. Love your work otherwise, big, big fan.

I must be doing something wrong if a Tory is a big fan of me.

Feeling dirty.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Just interested what you've seen on Ralf's CV that's made you feel he's a better fit for the job?

Conte was my choice.