Half this board would blame VDS for both of those goals

Originally Posted by Grimson

Half this board would blame VDS for both of those goals

half the board would be right :o)

Originally Posted by borsuk

half the board would be right )

bastard

That's not actually the point tho, whether they'd be right or not. The point is, it never seems to occur to the VDS critics that most other keepers make a LOT more mistakes than he does. United have already benefitted from at least 10 soft goals from opposition keepers this season. Instead of comparing Edwin to his contemporaries, they expect him to be perfect.

The first one was practically a howler by hilarious and the Essien shot could have been saved by a keeper through a combination of skill and good fortune.

Originally Posted by Lazarus

The first one was practically a howler by hilarious and the Essien shot could have been saved by a keeper through a combination of skill and good fortune.

Such as?

Phil Parkes yeah forgot about him. Wasn't he a top penalty saver along with Paul Cooper, he of the 3 saved in one game


Grimson I'm thinking Borsuk might have meant the half who wouldn't have blame VDS, but I could be wrong ?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Phil Parkes yeah forgot about him. Wasn't he a top penalty saver along with Paul Cooper, he of the 3 saved in one game


Grimson I'm thinking Borsuk might have meant the half who wouldn't have blame VDS, but I could be wrong ?

Good point! His smiley makes me think he was having a little go though.

Originally Posted by Grimson

Such as?

Such as by either blind luck or amazing anticipation to be in a position to save the shot.

Originally Posted by Lazarus

Such as by either blind luck or amazing anticipation to be in a position to save the shot.

I'm trying to get at where the luck would come into it.

Anticipation isn't a possiblity from that distance. It would simply be a guess, and no keeper guesses early on 30-yard shots.

The only way it would be saved is if the keeper was out of position in the first place, which contradicts the "skill" aspect of your first post.

Originally Posted by Grimson

I'm trying to get at where the luck would come into it.

Anticipation isn't a possiblity from that distance. It would simply be a guess, and no keeper guesses early on 30-yard shots.

The only way it would be saved is if the keeper was out of position in the first place, which contradicts the "skill" aspect of your first post.

Nothing has contadicted anything I've said.

I said that it could be saved by:

A: Luck - ie,being 'out of position' and thus able to save it quite easily.

B: Skill - you say it is impossible but how come both Banks and Schmikes made worldclass,pointblank saves that involved amazing reactions and anticipation?



For the record,I would not blame VDS for letting in the second at all..but I would be unhappy with the first one.

Which is what you said anyway so I don't really know why you're so desperate for an argument.

The contradiction is that a skilled goalkeeper wouldn't be out of position.

I'm looking for an argument because we haven't done this since Celtic.

Maybe not..but a lucky one could.

Out of interest.....are you saying that it is impossible that any goalkeeper in the history of the game,playing the very best they possibly could,could not have saved Essien's shot?

Originally Posted by Grimson

bastard

That's not actually the point tho, whether they'd be right or not. The point is, it never seems to occur to the VDS critics that most other keepers make a LOT more mistakes than he does. United have already benefitted from at least 10 soft goals from opposition keepers this season. Instead of comparing Edwin to his contemporaries, they expect him to be perfect.

Totally agree. Van Der Sar makes mistakes, but who doesn't?

He saves a lot of shots he really has no right to, and his reading of the game at the back is something we probably take for granted.

I'd say he's in the top five goalkeepers in Europe, personally, so after the Howard/Carroll circus act I'm delighted to have him and respect what he brings to our side.

Originally Posted by Lazarus

Maybe not..but a lucky one could.

Out of interest.....are you saying that it is impossible that any goalkeeper in the history of the game,playing the very best they possibly could,could not have saved Essien's shot?

Of course not. What I am saying is, no goalkeeper in the history of the game could be expected to make that save, or be blamed for failing to do so.

Yet many here would have blamed VDS had it been him.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Totally agree. Van Der Sar makes mistakes, but who doesn't?

He saves a lot of shots he really has no right to, and his reading of the game at the back is something we probably take for granted.

I'd say he's in the top five goalkeepers in Europe, personally, so after the Howard/Carroll circus act I'm delighted to have him and respect what he brings to our side.

Yeah right enough. But VDS out of form is not pretty. Let's hope some of his Juve form never returns cus that was scary.

Grimson.. there is no point arguing when we appear to agree on this (t)issue



However,the man is dodgy at freekicks and doesn't like deadball situations one little bit

Nice one.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I'd say he's in the top five goalkeepers in Europe, personally, so after the Howard/Carroll circus act I'm delighted to have him and respect what he brings to our side.

I don't believe he's in the top five in Europe. I do think he is highly competent and pretty reliable.

However,I think part of the reason why he is so highly rated is precisely because of the pinky and perky act we endured a few season ago - not to mention Barthez!

who makes mistakes, like all keepers. his mistakes stand out more, perhaps, because he makes so few. i don't think he's weak on free kicks particularly - the ones we've let in have been excellent strikes so unless the wall is badly positioned, which is hard to believe, there's not much he could have done. it's nice to have a keeper who claims crosses at last, though i thought he was strangely reluctant to come off his line against city - perhaps corrido's presence?

grimson - what do you think of kuszczak?


oh, and i meant the half who wouldn't blame him, of course

I can't honestly give much of an opinion of Kuszczak, having only seen him play a few times last season and once this season. He looked dead nervous in the Arsenal match, did save a penalty but it wasn't very well taken. He looks a good No 2 but won't be pressing VDS for his place anytime soon.

I have higher hopes for Foster as a long-term solution. After an excellent start to the season, from all accounts he appears to have hit something of a wall in the last month. Understandable, given his age and the battering he's taking at Watford.

Foster is out injured and has returned to United for treatment. Whether he sustained an injury hitting a wall, I can't say.


But he's looked an excellent prospect. I'd say he's already the best English keeper, and with more experience he should be one of the best in the league. Which isn't always saying much, I know, but I can see him being second only to Cech if he keeps improving at this rate.