PAID: Watford v Manchester United Official Match thread

Originally Posted by jem

a ball he should have £#%&!ing had going forwards 30 seconds before.

running back to try to win the ball is not the same as showing for it as a striker, you utter £#%&!wit.

he constantly ran into the space a received the ball to feet and then had to wait an age for any back up from his team mates.. When he ran in behind and held up the ball the rest of our attack and midfield were too slow and too far away to help him out, by miles he has been our best attacking player this season.

And not to piss on the great man's chips, but I think the De Gea save is getting overhyped.

The timing of it, yeah, but it's a comfortable height, he doesn't have to fully stretch. It's a save I'd expect most top flight keepers to make.

Originally Posted by jem

generally, I agree with you, but not on this. he doesn't show for the ball. even when he was beating cathcart to the ball, he was starting from behind him. he was so much quicker, you have to wonder why he couldn't use his pace to get into space to receive the ball with time to control it. he constantly snookers himself so the player with the ball doesn't have an obvious ball to him whilst sort of looking like he might be an option.

I disagree. He just waits for his moment, The right ball. He doesn't just wildly charge in to space, but he hangs on the last defender well.

The one that stood out was when Valencia got in down the right. Acres of space and plenty of time to play it into his path and put him clear. Instead, he delays and plays it to his feet, allowing Watford players to get back. Sums The dawdling nature of our counters.

The Plum Tart was excellent.

Originally Posted by jem

a ball he should have £#%&!ing had going forwards 30 seconds before.

running back to try to win the ball is not the same as showing for it as a striker, you utter £#%&!wit.

He'd pulled off their left back (giggidy) and was keeping himself onside. He was in if The Scottish Player could execute a fairly simple pass.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

And not to piss on the great man's chips, but I think the De Gea save is getting overhyped.

The timing of it, yeah, but it's a comfortable height, he doesn't have to fully stretch. It's a save I'd expect most top flight keepers to make.

The one at the end yeah. First half one at 0-0 was ace.

A couple of Foster's saves as well

Originally Posted by andyroo

The one at the end yeah. First half one at 0-0 was ace.

A couple of Foster's saves as well

The first half one was better because of the pace on it.

We've defended well the last two games. Just simple stuff. Put bodies on the line, protected each other.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

I disagree. He just waits for his moment, The do it ball. He doesn't just wildly charge in to space, but he hangs on the last defender well.

The one that stood out was when Valencia got in down the right. Acres of space and plenty of time to play it into his path and put him clear. Instead, he delays and plays it to his feet, allowing Watford players to get back. Sums The dawdling nature of our counters.

I thought that was as much his fault as valencia's.

it's not a question of wildly charging into space, it's more making intelligent runs that give the player with the ball some guidance on where you're going and where to put the ball. with the physical talents he has, he's nowhere near as effective as he should be. he makes is hard to give him a good ball. the fact that he manages to make balls just played into space look good because he can still get to them first just make watching him more frustrating.

and that's even before his finishing.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

I think they'd have won but Watford would have caused problems too.

It's not an easy place to win. Don't know if you saw the prematch stat, but they had a better home record this year than anyone in the league.

I suspect spurs would have been in your list there too had they not lost last week.

We were well worth our win in a difficult fixture.

Considering the mood and position after the spurs game, not many would have fancied us for six points against Burnley and Watford.

It's not perfect and it was never going to be, but there's signs of improvement: we're creating chances, defending well and working hard. We've failed to do that on several occasions recently.

This.

I thought the attitude of 1 or 2 second half was a bit odd. I don't like JM, but I don't think he actually wants his teams to drop off / drop the tempo second half. Became far too casual for my liking.

As for Sanchez and Martial, no fan of either. I get the former contributes in terms of up/down the pitch but as an attacking or creative threat it just doesn't seem to be working. The cameo from the latter just isn't for me. If he doesn't want to be at the club, let him go and replace him. I don't see the WC talent that some seem to think is in there waiting to pop out once a new manager drops by.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

He'd pulled off their left back (giggidy) and was keeping himself onside. He was in if The Scottish Player could execute a fairly simple pass.

he was way too £#%&!ing close to the defender. if he had been wider, tommers wouldn't have had to try to thread a needle. or if he'd run across him. that was absolutely £#%&!ing typical, making it look like he was on, but making it as hard as possible.

Originally Posted by ziggyman17

he constantly ran into the space a received the ball to feet and then had to wait an age for any back up from his team mates.. When he ran in behind and held up the ball the rest of our attack and midfield were too slow and too far away to help him out, by miles he has been our best attacking player this season.

what game were you watching?

Originally Posted by jem

what game were you watching?

the same one every single other person who isn't you was watching.

Originally Posted by jem

I thought that was as much his fault as valencia's.

it's not a question of wildly charging into space, it's more making intelligent runs that give the player with the ball some guidance on where you're going and where to put the ball. with the physical talents he has, he's nowhere near as effective as he should be. he makes is hard to give him a good ball. the fact that he manages to make balls just played into space look good because he can still get to them first just make watching him more frustrating.

and that's even before his finishing.

Sorry, but how is that anyone other than Valencias fault?

Lukaku pulls off Cathcart, is dead centre of goal. Can't move any further forward or he'd be offside. Any ball 5 yards in front of him that bypasses Cathcart is good enough. What else is he supposed to be there?

Valencia takes an extra touch and plays it dead weight to Lukaku's feet, behind Cathcart. Just awful from Valencia.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

the same one every single other person who isn't you was watching.

so you also watched a game where lukaku constantly ran into the space and received the ball to feet..... and then had to wait an age for any back up from his team mates?

mmmk.

Originally Posted by jem

he was way too £#%&!ing close to the defender. if he had been wider, tommers wouldn't have had to try to thread a needle. or if he'd run across him. that was absolutely £#%&!ing typical, making it look like he was on, but making it as hard as possible.


what game were you watching?

Again, disagree. He was on the last shoulder so that he could stay central cut across Cathcart or accelerate once he received it. Any further from Cathcart and he'd be too far out wide and would have to face him up.

It simply wasn't a difficult ball to play. It's basic service from him and Valencia that has failed to put him clean through.

They're passes with a fairly large margin for error too. The Scottish Player can play to feet or into to space, just don't underhit. Valencia has yards of space to play into, Just don't play it to feet or behind. Basic stuff. Both failed.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Sorry, but how is that anyone other than Valencias fault?

Lukaku pulls off Cathcart, is dead centre of goal. Can't move any further forward or he'd be offside. Any ball 5 yards in front of him that bypasses Cathcart is good enough. What else is he supposed to be there?

Valencia takes an extra touch and plays it dead weight to Lukaku's feet, behind Cathcart. Just awful from Valencia.

valencia never plays that first time ball curled round the back of the defence like beckham. but lukaku hung around in exactly the right spot for his favourite square inside slightly behind ball instead of £#%&!ing making him bend round the back or moving further to the left. he's like a feeder to a fat man.

Originally Posted by andyroo

The one at the end yeah. First half one at 0-0 was ace.

A couple of Foster's saves as well

Foster nearly always has a blinder against us, for some reason

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Again, disagree. He was on the last shoulder so that he could stay central cut across Cathcart or accelerate once he received it. Any further from Cathcart and he'd be too far out wide and would have to face him up.

I'm not suggesting he should have been wider and got it to feet (to face up the defender); I'm suggesting that if he had been wider, The Scottish Player would have had a wider channel to play the ball through so he could run on it to it and he would have been past the defender.

Originally Posted by jem

valencia never plays that first time ball curled round the back of the defence like beckham. but lukaku hung around in exactly the right spot for his favourit square inside slightly behind ball instead of £#%&!ing making him bend round the back or moving further to the left. he's like a feeder to a fat man.

Curled round the defence like Beckham? Hardly. It's a ball into space ahead of play. I don't care if it's his forte or not, any half decent player should be able to execute that if they find themselves in that area.

We're not asking him to curl it from behind the full back, across the line of the defence. He has one defender to take out, who is ten yards away from him, and has about 5 yard margin of error to play it ahead of lukaku. He took a touch, lost his moment and played a poorer ball. It was entirely on him and not a difficult pass.

Enjoyed that ...

Originally Posted by jem

I'm not suggesting he should have been wider and got it to feet (to face up the defender); I'm suggesting that if he had been wider, The Scottish Player would have had a wider channel to play the ball through so he could run on it to it and he would have been past the defender.

So you're not suggesting he should he wider, but if he was then the pass would have been easier.....which is your argument.....so he should be wider then?

Where do you think he should move to in that situation?

As I said, if he moves further away from the defender, as you suggest, to make the pass easier (which he shouldn't need to do. The pass is fairly simple and The Scottish Player is a midfielder) he send himself wider and away from goal, giving him more distance to cover to cut defender out the game.

He's taking up the optimal position: he gives The Scottish Player two options. To feet, he can accelerate across the defender. Ahead, he can run into the space. He gives The Scottish Player a big margin for error. Just don't underhit it. He does.

If he gets the right pass and £#%&!s it up, that's on him. As a forward, all he can do is make the best run for any given attack and hope his team mates execute properly.

They fail a lot of the time

Originally Posted by Clownbones

So you're not suggesting he should he wider, but if he was then the pass would have been easier.....which is your argument.....so he should be wider then?

Where do you think he should move to in that situation?

As I said, if he moves further away from the defender, as you suggest, to make the pass easier (which he shouldn't need to do. The pass is fairly simple and The Scottish Player is a midfielder) he send himself wider and away from goal, giving him more distance to cover to cut defender out the game.

He's taking up the optimal position: he gives The Scottish Player two options. To feet, he can accelerate across the defender. Ahead, he can run into the space. He gives The Scottish Player a big margin for error. Just don't underhit it. He does.

If he gets the right pass and £#%&!s it up, that's on him. As a forward, all he can do is make the best run for any given attack and hope his team mates execute properly.

They fail a lot of the time

no. he should be wider. but not to get the ball to feet. it's not that hard.