Mason Mount

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Agree to disagree.

Thank God.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

And Schmeichel had a nightmare on his debut,

You sure about that one?

Name suggestions for the newest gang in town -

the Positive Percies
the Forced Smile Forsyths
The Happy Harrys
The justice league

Originally Posted by believe

What?

How many midfielders have scored 2 goals on their debut for United? You made it sound like it’s a regular thing, so should be a long list, yes?

Originally Posted by NedKelly

Name suggestions for the newest gang in town -

the Positive Percies
the Forced Smile Forsyths
The Happy Harrys
The justice league

Pravda Prats.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Thank God.

Just clocked Coracao has paid his subs! Not sure when this happened but what a guy

Originally Posted by believe

You sure about that one?

£#%&! knows, I was 3. Thought he had, if not then ignore that part of my post and move onto the other two players I picked out of thin air.

Originally Posted by Ethers

How many midfielders have scored 2 goals on their debut for United? You made it sound like it’s a regular thing, so should be a long list, yes?

Well I mentioned Keane in the post you quoted but I suppose that’s not enough. We’ve had plenty of players who’ve had good debuts, it’s what we did, we spend big money, bought good players and they fit in straight away. It’s just what some of us are used to so yes the list is long.

People keep mentioning Evra and Vidic as arguments against it, two people in 20 years

Originally Posted by believe

Well I mentioned Keane in the post you quoted but I suppose that’s not enough. We’ve had plenty of players who’ve had good debuts, it’s what we did, we spend big money, bought good players and they fit in straight away. It’s just what some of us are used to so yes the list is long.

People keep mentioning Evra and Vidic as arguments against it, two people in 20 years

And you mentioned one player in 20 years...

I'll help you out, Van Nistelrooy bagged two against Fulham on his debut.

Alan Smith bagged I think as well, including an overhead kick in his first or second game iirc. United legend him isn't he?

Originally Posted by Patty_b

£#%&! knows, I was 3. Thought he had, if not then ignore that part of my post and move onto the other two players I picked out of thin air.

We beat Notts county 2-0 from memory.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

And you mentioned one player in 20 years...

You seriously want me to make a list of people who’ve had good debuts at United?

Not sure Schmeichel, Evra or Vidic are really adequate comparisons.

Mount has played almost 200 games for a rival and is a regular England international. Rightly or wrongly, people will have preconceived biases about his ability to perform for Utd to a far greater degree.

Will make for an interesting thread this season though

Originally Posted by Patty_b

And you mentioned one player in 20 years...

I'll help you out, Van Nistelrooy bagged two against Fulham on his debut.

Alan Smith bagged I think as well, including an overhead kick in his first or second game iirc. United legend him isn't he?

Rooney hat trick?
Ronaldo’s Bolton game?

Nice to see the contrary crew are back in full force

Originally Posted by believe

Well I mentioned Keane in the post you quoted but I suppose that’s not enough. We’ve had plenty of players who’ve had good debuts, it’s what we did, we spend big money, bought good players and they fit in straight away. It’s just what some of us are used to so yes the list is long.

People keep mentioning Evra and Vidic as arguments against it, two people in 20 years

I don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying, it was an underwhelming debut, and I’d hope there’s more to come from him. It was such a poor team performance that I think it would be hard for anyone to stand out tbf.

I just think talking about scoring 2 goals on your debut is unrealistic, and instances of that are few and far between.

Shocking that Bobby Charlton hasn't been mentioned, btw.

Originally Posted by Ethers

I don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying, it was an underwhelming debut, and I’d hope there’s more to come from him. It was such a poor team performance that I think it would be hard for anyone to stand out tbf.

I just think talking about scoring 2 goals on your debut is unrealistic, and instances of that are few and far between.

Your problem is you’re too quick to jump on anything I say to defend your clique. If you’d read the thread you’d have seen this

Originally Posted by believe

Thought he did alright considering the shit show around him. Didn’t know much about him before he signed for us but looks like the type of player that will fit in well and do a decent job for us.

The issue is he's a nice player, it was called from the first page.

He'll do a lot of things well, but generally speaking it's not going to fill any glaring holes we have in the midfield as we either needed someone more box to box & powerful, or destructive, or a true holding playmaker that can intercept extremely well & then pass it through the impending press.

Think Essien, Makelele or Carrick. Instead we don't have a true midfielder, can he be converted by moving him back & instilling some bite into his game? I hope so. We £#%&!ed up not picking up one of Tchoumeni or Camavinga though for the prices they have gone for, Newcastle have their Bruno & Tonali in midfield that we would be better served in Red imo.

Mount is playing as an 8, further up the park, it's as much ETH's philosophy of wanting to defend that high up / overload there as it is a question of Mount doing his job well.

Exposing Casemiro, & literally any midfielder, on their own when almost everyone is getting 3 or more likely 4 midfielders in there is suicide.

I don't have an issue with Mount being in the squad, I'd like to see the philosophy be given a chance to evolve into what ETH wants - but it's a concern to watch the first game of the season & a shit side getting that many chances & us simply not competing, Mount didn't do anything wrong per se, he just played his game. Which isn't all that impactful, he's never smashing anyone & getting the crowd up, or pinging a searching cross field pass that is inch perfect (he can, but when things are going well... not as a routine) and he's not bursting past anyone etc.

If you're going to be tidy you need to be exceptionally tidy, like David Silva / Iniesta / Ødegaard even playing as an 8 for Arsenal.

Mount is only 24, he can improve, but I can't shake the thought that he's just not the piece of the puzzle that needs to compliment Casemiro & Bruno

I hope he & ETH prove me badly wrong, the side will obviously look a lot different with Big Rassie up top & maybe Pavard at RB doing quality things like having a first touch & being able to cross consistently.

Originally Posted by believe

You seriously want me to make a list of people who’ve had good debuts at United?

No, i don't care. You're the one who raised the bar to a debutant scoring two goals on their debut, not me.

I've never said he played well, or that it was a good debut, just that the amount of negative judgement on one player making his debut who wasn't close to the worst player on the pitch is ott.

compare neil webb's glorious old trafford debut against the reigning champions (his goal was memorably described as "swazz-heavy" by manutd.com) to mason mount's against... um.... bottom half of the table, destitute and almost managerless wolves. can't wait til mount is a delivery driver.

Originally Posted by believe

Your problem is you’re too quick to jump on anything I say to defend your clique. If you’d read the thread you’d have seen this

Defend my clique

I literally opened the thread, saw you post something ridiculous, and replied to it. Don’t be such a £#%&!ing baby.

Originally Posted by Baron

The issue is he's a nice player, it was called from the first page.

He'll do a lot of things well, but generally speaking it's not going to fill any glaring holes we have in the midfield as we either needed someone more box to box & powerful, or destructive, or a true holding playmaker that can intercept extremely well & then pass it through the impending press.

Think Essien, Makelele or Carrick. Instead we don't have a true midfielder, can he be converted by moving him back & instilling some bite into his game? I hope so. We £#%&!ed up not picking up one of Tchoumeni or Camavinga though for the prices they have gone for, Newcastle have their Bruno & Tonali in midfield that we would be better served in Red imo.

Mount is playing as an 8, further up the park, it's as much ETH's philosophy of wanting to defend that high up / overload there as it is a question of Mount doing his job well.

Exposing Casemiro, & literally any midfielder, on their own when almost everyone is getting 3 or more likely 4 midfielders in there is suicide.

I don't have an issue with Mount being in the squad, I'd like to see the philosophy be given a chance to evolve into what ETH wants - but it's a concern to watch the first game of the season & a shit side getting that many chances & us simply not competing, Mount didn't do anything wrong per se, he just played his game. Which isn't all that impactful, he's never smashing anyone & getting the crowd up, or pinging a searching cross field pass that is inch perfect (he can, but when things are going well... not as a routine) and he's not bursting past anyone etc.

If you're going to be tidy you need to be exceptionally tidy, like David Silva / Iniesta / Ødegaard even playing as an 8 for Arsenal.

Mount is only 24, he can improve, but I can't shake the thought that he's just not the piece of the puzzle that needs to compliment Casemiro & Bruno

I hope he & ETH prove me badly wrong, the side will obviously look a lot different with Big Rassie up top & maybe Pavard at RB doing quality things like having a first touch & being able to cross consistently.

Need to give him time to adapt really, and last night was a horror show of a performance from the side.

The biggest issue I have with Mount from watching him for years is that he doesn't get involved enough. It happens when he is playing for England. He needs to get on the ball more, as we do not have a playmaker (for want of a better term) in the side. He seems to be happy to drift through games and only be on the ball when he can impact the game with a pass in the final third. We need him to advance the play from deeper and be the player who breaks the lines with a pass to spring counters and maintain possession when under the cosh etc. He's played #8 before, but there is more emphasis here on his ability to help us to dictate games, rather than simply score / create, as Casemiro isn't really in that mould - will be interesting what type of player replaces him.

Could probably argue that we have bought the wrong player, as we will need to mould him into that player.