The Scottish Player & Fred

We did this the other day.

Milner
Can
Henderson
Wijnaldum

Is a vastly superior set of midfielders to our current lot, all can actually play games in the PL and CL with some degree of regularity for a £#%&!ing start, which neither Beek or Matic can. And they were all juiced up to the eyeballs.

Originally Posted by dunk

We did this the other day.

Milner
Can
Henderson
Wijnaldum

Is a vastly superior set of midfielders to our current lot, all can actually play games in the PL and CL with some degree of regularity for a £#%&!ing start, which neither Beek or Matic can. And they were all juiced up to the eyeballs.

Nah

Not buying what you’re selling pal.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

As a group you clueless old @#%&!

that's just the contradiction you put in your own post.

pretty sure others have made similar comments about each of pogba, d.on (neither of whom should be playing in the two), The Scottish Player and even matic (the silly buggers).

Originally Posted by AK14

Nah

Not buying what you’re selling pal.

That’s your problem tbh. You’ll continue to be made miserable by your delusion.

Originally Posted by dunk

We did this the other day.

Milner
Can
Henderson
Wijnaldum

Is a vastly superior set of midfielders to our current lot, all can actually play games in the PL and CL with some degree of regularity for a £#%&!ing start, which neither Beek or Matic can. And they were all juiced up to the eyeballs.

Surely to an extent they were made superior by their manager? It sticks in the throat but it's true - Klopp got also-ran players from clubs like Lille, Stoke, Sunderland and Newcastle and had them dominate Messi's Barcelona ffs. He's a very good manager who gets the best out of what he's got, which is what Ole isn't doing at the moment. They all look lost, disorganised and unsure where they're supposed to be.

Yves Bissouma and a training cone would be an improvement over these two @#%&!s

Originally Posted by waynes ear's

Yves Bissouma and a training cone would be an improvement over these two @#%&!s

£#%&! me... your avatar confused me for a second there. I thought "I don't remember writing that.... but it's true!"

Originally Posted by Zorg

Surely to an extent they were made superior by their manager? It sticks in the throat but it's true - Klopp got also-ran players from clubs like Lille, Stoke, Sunderland and Newcastle and had them dominate Messi's Barcelona ffs. He's a very good manager who gets the best out of what he's got, which is what Ole isn't doing at the moment. They all look lost, disorganised and unsure where they're supposed to be.

Exactly this.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Surely to an extent they were made superior by their manager? It sticks in the throat but it's true - Klopp got also-ran players from clubs like Lille, Stoke, Sunderland and Newcastle and had them dominate Messi's Barcelona ffs. He's a very good manager who gets the best out of what he's got, which is what Ole isn't doing at the moment. They all look lost, disorganised and unsure where they're supposed to be.

They’re all good players in their own right, they were PL proven in the case of Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum and Can was a big unit that could get about and get stuck in. More importantly, they were all at good ages and could play regularly.

Matic - PL proven, but old and can’t play or move.
Beek - ?
Fred - not really anything other than brainless and hard working. Means well.
McT - Decent enough and a unit that can get about.
Pogba - utter liability with flashes of incredible talent.

We’re basically picking 2 from 3, and one of those 3 can’t play regularly. It’s a shocking position to be in.

I think he can get more out of them, but it would mean setting them up in such a fashion that everyone would bitch that we’re too defensive. You could even say he’s maybe done well to get as much out of them as he did last season.

Fergie had a team with Ronaldo, Rooney, RvN, Saha etc. that finished 3rd because we had to play a CM of O’Shea and Giggs for large parts of the season. Shit midfielders, very very tough ask. I just want to see the side do similar to what that one did in that it improved as the season went on, despite its obvious deficiencies (remember everyone screaming for Gravesen and the Dutch lad at Milan) and push on towards the end of the season. Then the obvious problems are addressed in the summer (or preferably, we push on through the first half of the season and sort it Jan). We don’t have a Scholes to return, a Fletcher to mature or a Carrick on the shopping list is the main issue.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Surely to an extent they were made superior by their manager? It sticks in the throat but it's true - Klopp got also-ran players from clubs like Lille, Stoke, Sunderland and Newcastle and had them dominate Messi's Barcelona ffs. He's a very good manager who gets the best out of what he's got, which is what Ole isn't doing at the moment. They all look lost, disorganised and unsure where they're supposed to be.

Yep, absolutely.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

I kind of get what Marlo is saying; he has a valid point. Pogba, Vdb, The Scottish Player, Matic and Fred aren't terrible options (far from it in fact) nor are Henderson, Jones, Milner, Keita, Fabinho etc the best midfield the world has ever seen. Our midfield situation should not be as inept as it is. I am pro Ole but Marlo is right; the performances are diabolical in that area. They should be coached so much better. We have some of the best forward players in Europe and our first choice back four is as good as any imo. Any top footballer can be coached to do a job imo; there is a problem that ours for some reason cannot.

Why didn't Fred just put the £#%&!ing ball into the crowd on Saturday?!! That stupidity cost us the match. I would never let the @#%&! wear the shirt again, tbh. He is £#%&!ing shite.

And Absolutely all of this.

Originally Posted by dunk

The performance on Saturday while unspectacular was completely undermined by an absolute horror of a basic error by Fred. That’s it. He had similar nightmares at Wolves and Southampton off the top of my head. The manager isn’t telling him to be a lightweight brainless #@&%!.
.

Notwithstanding all of that, he keeps picking him

Whoever the manager selects he is accountable for at the end of the day.

Originally Posted by waynes ear's

Yves Bissouma and a training cone would be an improvement over these two @#%&!s

Honestly don’t know why it’s an either/or situation for some. It’s both manager and players. No manager in the world is getting rid of Fred making his godawful mistakes - he needs replacing. But, yeah, across the whole team I’m sure some managers could get a better song out of the group of players we have.

Originally Posted by Stickman

Yep, absolutely.



And Absolutely all of this.



Notwithstanding all of that, he keeps picking him

Whoever the manager selects he is accountable for at the end of the day.

Because his alternatives are fundamentally flawed. More so than Fred. If we’re having to pick him regardless of performance, what does that say about Matic, Pogba, Beek or whoever else might be expected to play in that area, and even McT in that he can’t be trusted in there on his own.

The manager isn't the problem, it's the coaching staff. They're all glad to be there and won't rock the boat. Said it about a month ago - a new assistant manager (would love Keano) is needed to shake things up. Ole can handle the man management side but we need someone to be blunt about the squad and what the shortcomings are - a bad cop to Ole's good cop perhaps.

The Scottish Player is the best of the midfielders and that's more damning of the midfield than praising the lad. Matic would be great if he still had the legs, Fred is Fred. Beek might be the best but looks like we won't get to find out.

Originally Posted by NedKelly

Honestly don’t know why it’s an either/or situation for some. It’s both manager and players. No manager in the world is getting rid of Fred making his godawful mistakes - he needs replacing. But, yeah, across the whole team I’m sure some managers could get a better song out of the group of players we have.

IMO, Ole doesn’t win the league with a world class player in every position. There’s just more to it than having the best team on paper, as our season so far is revealing.

Originally Posted by dunk

Because his alternatives are fundamentally flawed. More so than Fred. If we’re having to pick him regardless of performance, what does that say about Matic, Pogba, Beek or whoever else might be expected to play in that area, and even McT in that he can’t be trusted in there on his own.

I don’t think we do have to pick Fred at all, especially when he’s playing like shit.

I’d have Matic over him every time and I’d afford Van de Beek more leeway, the performance level Fred has gotten away with this season is criminal.

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

The manager isn't the problem, it's the coaching staff. They're all glad to be there and won't rock the boat. Said it about a month ago - a new assistant manager (would love Keano) is needed to shake things up. Ole can handle the man management side but we need someone to be blunt about the squad and what the shortcomings are - a bad cop to Ole's good cop perhaps.

The Scottish Player is the best of the midfielders and that's more damning of the midfield than praising the lad. Matic would be great if he still had the legs, Fred is Fred. Beek might be the best but looks like we won't get to find out.

Matic can’t play ‘every time’ or even 90 minutes a lot of the time, and he too brings issues.

Originally Posted by dunk

Because his alternatives are fundamentally flawed. More so than Fred.

other opinions are available.

however, even though I would pick The Scottish Player and matic ahead of fred, I wouldn't really want to pick either of them. we need more and better midfielders.

and we need better coaching.

Originally Posted by jem

other opinions are available.

however, even though I would pick The Scottish Player and matic ahead of fred, I wouldn't really want to pick either of them. we need more and better midfielders.

and we need better coaching.

Ping

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

This.

The chatter has been around resting Ronaldo. This completely misses the point. We were winning when he came on and drawing by the end. He was there against Villa and was stood watching as Newcastle and Everton scored almost identical horrendous goals.

Varane was supposed to improve the defence. He looks good, the defence doesn’t. Ronaldo was supposed to improve the attack, he looks good, but we don’t attack with any more cohesion. Even De Gea has found form, but we’re not conceding any fewer because of it.

These are coaching problems.

The midfield is a problem, ofcourse, but there’s no excuse for the goals we concede. Fergie used to do a job with the likes of Darron Gibson in there. I’ve never seen a United side this easy to play against and we’ve had average players in the past. McFred are limited, but they work hard and should he able to do competent job against average teams.

We’re getting done by the likes of f***ing Tom Davies, Stuart Armstrong and Andros Townsend ffs.

I have no confidence anymore that Ole knows how to solve this. I think we’ll go week to week and our results will be determined by moments, little spells in games and our rollercoaster confidence. I have no confidence that, in ten games time, we’ll see a more organised, cohesive team.

Originally Posted by jem

other opinions are available.

however, even though I would pick The Scottish Player and matic ahead of fred, I wouldn't really want to pick either of them. we need more and better midfielders.

and we need better coaching.

exactly this

Originally Posted by Stickman

Something is going on behind the scenes re. Beek that we're clearly not privvy to. Whether it's his attitude in training or what, who knows, but if he was better away from games, surely he'd be getting more match time?

The bottom line is that however short of quality our midfield is, I refuse to believe that recent performances are the best we could possibly achieve. And that is down to Ole and his staff.