Is this place as bad as RAWK for knee-jerk reactions?

The difference is on RAWK when they are deluded, they win one or two games and suddenly they're the best team ever and better than everybody, and they honestly believe that. If we beat Wigan on Saturday you won't see people on here going over the top about it.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Park's an 'excellent attacking weapon' is your opinion. I'll agree he has a lot of very good qualities, scoring goals & creating them are not in that list against the smaller sides when he has 2 men to front up. Against Chelsea & Arsenal - Arsenal especially last season he was afforded acres of space as we were off in the distance goals wise & the game was completely open for us to counter attack.

At 0-0, would you want Park to be one of your main attacking threats for the rest of the season?

Of course you wouldn't.

you can't just ignore the Chelsea match because you forgot that Ronaldo was only a sub

and Park scored the opener at Arsenal and it was his goal that put us in the position to exploit their desperation.

this is ridiculous. anyway look, i've dismantled your point, let's just leave it there. it should be a waste of your talent just putting words in my mouth imo.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

And Rio
And vidic
And van der sar
And tevez

Ronaldo wasn't the only one missing last night.

He was the only one who's been sold though.

I think Tumescent throb is a weapon too, but not an excellent one.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

you can't just ignore the Chelsea match because you forgot that Ronaldo was only a sub

and Park scored the opener at Arsenal and it was his goal that put us in the position to exploit their desperation.

this is ridiculous. anyway look, i've dismantled your point, let's just leave it there. it should be a waste of your talent just putting words in my mouth imo.

So you're happy for Park to be a first choice winger for the rest of the season? Simple Yes or No.

& dismantling a point by arguing for a United player that scored 2 goals... £#%&! me. :shakehead:

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Park should not be starting when you need to break a side down, he should be in against Chelsea, or Arsenal etc as a stopper. & even that that was so we could release Ronnie last season. He's a pointless attacking weapon imo.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Park scored away against both these sides last season and was generally excellent in his forward role at Arsenal. He understands the position as clearly demonstrated by the runs he makes and the chances he gets, for example against Barcelona in the s/f 2nd leg, and even against Burnley last night. He also scored against Arsenal at OT a couple of seasons back. Basically the anti-Park nonsense that gets spouted on here blatantly ignores reality.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Erm, I clearly said he should be IN against those sides,

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

yes you did, but for the wrong reasons. you exact words were, and I quote, "He's a pointless attacking weapon imo". I was simply pointing out that you are wrong, and that he has proved to be a particularly good attacking weapon against those sides. If Park's movement and tactical awareness could be cloned and injected into Anderson for example the world would be a happier place for United.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

No, as I just explained, he gets space in those games in comparison to the exact opposite in games against the supposed cannon fodder. 2 league goals last season, one against Chelsea & the other was against Boro. Is that good enough in 25 appearances as a Manchester United winger?

If we give Anderson 2 more seasons to develop into as experienced a player as Park I suspect we'll see that brighter future rather than having a dig.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Why wouldn't we need to break Chelsea or Arsenal down?

He proved an excellent "attacking weapon" away at both Chelsea and Arsenal (CL) last season. United dominated at both grounds for large spells in both those matches, Park scored in both, and Ronaldo was a sub at Chelsea.

Anyway whatever... Anderson should of course be able to force himself into the side by gaining Ferguson's trust.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Park's an 'excellent attacking weapon' is your opinion. I'll agree he has a lot of very good qualities, scoring goals & creating them are not in that list against the smaller sides when he has 2 men to front up. Against Chelsea & Arsenal - Arsenal especially last season he was afforded acres of space as we were off in the distance goals wise & the game was completely open for us to counter attack.

At 0-0, would you want Park to be one of your main attacking threats for the rest of the season?

Of course you wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

you can't just ignore the Chelsea match because you forgot that Ronaldo was only a sub

and Park scored the opener at Arsenal and it was his goal that put us in the position to exploit their desperation.

this is ridiculous. anyway look, i've dismantled your point, let's just leave it there. it should be a waste of your talent just putting words in my mouth imo.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

So you're happy for Park to be a first choice winger for the rest of the season? Simple Yes or No.

& dismantling a point by arguing for a United player that scored 2 goals... £#%&! me. :shakehead:

stick to the point and stop making stuff up. you're better than that!

I have clearly argued that park is used against the top sides because he has proved that he offers an attacking threat. I argued this because you were initially arguing that this was not the case. I have at no stage ever argued that he should be "first choice winger for the rest of the season" or anything remotely similar to that. as such I will steer clear of your silly straw man prodding in that direction.

Originally Posted by wiganste

It's the 2nd game of the season! We're 3 points behind. It's gonna be difficult making up that huge gap I know, but have some faith. The cream always rises to the top.

Apart from the 2006/7 season, I can't remember us having a blistering start.

Exactly though.

This is what I mean.It's not 'knee-jerk' to be £#%&!ed off with that display/result from last night.It IS knee-jerk to start wailing about getting rid of players and carrying on slagging them off as 'shit' etc.

Just pointing out the diff.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

stick to the point and stop making stuff up. you're better than that!

I have clearly argued that park is used against the top sides because he has proved that he offers an attacking threat. I argued this because you were initially arguing that this was not the case. I have at no stage ever argued that he should be "first choice winger for the rest of the season" or anything remotely similar to that. as such I will steer clear of your silly straw man prodding in that direction.

I also argued he should be played against the top sides, whether we agree for what reason was moot. The point I was making was he shouldn't be used to start games against the shit, because his record against them is crap. His record in affecting games from a positive perspective, goals & assists, is crap in general. & when a £16m direct winger is sat on the bench, I'm somewhat baffled as to why a paceless non-goal scoring winger starts instead.

You can carry on your Park's an attacking threat against the big boys crusade but it's not what I intended to debate. Besides which, you're blatantly on your own with that line - well, you & Fergie.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

I also argued he should be played against the top sides, whether we agree for what reason was moot. The point I was making was he shouldn't be used to start games against the shit, because his record against them is crap. His record in affecting games from a positive perspective, goals & assists, is crap in general. & when a £16m direct winger is sat on the bench, I'm somewhat baffled as to why a paceless non-goal scoring winger starts instead.

You can carry on your Park's an attacking threat against the big boys crusade but it's not what I intended to debate. Besides which, you're blatantly on your own with that line - well, you & Fergie.

well it wasn't moot cus that's what I picked you up on

i pointed out Chelsea and Arsenal

you said they were largely down to Ronaldo

i pointed out Ronaldo was only a sub at chelsea

you said i said park is better than donadoni in his pomp

blah blah blah


i'm far from 'blatantly on my own' about it btw. i have the record books on my side for a start off. i mean, apart from the games I mentioned, he's also scored against Arsenal before, and he played in the 4-0 win against them in 08, set Rooney up for the clincher in Rome in 08 as well, fizzed one past the post in the s/f vs Barca and was also part of possibly our best performance last season away at Inter.

your point about Park against the lower lights is fair enough and i did not argue against it, even though I don't necessarily agree. much depends on formations of course.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

well it wasn't moot cus that's what I picked you up on

i pointed out Chelsea and Arsenal

you said they were largely down to Ronaldo

i pointed out Ronaldo was only a sub at chelsea

you said i said park is better than donadoni in his pomp

blah blah blah


i'm far from 'blatantly on my own' about it btw. i have the record books on my side for a start off. i mean, apart from the games I mentioned, he's also scored against Arsenal before, and he played in the 4-0 win against them in 08, set Rooney up for the clincher in Rome in 08 as well, fizzed one past the post in the s/f vs Barca and was also part of possibly our best performance last season away at Inter.

your point about Park against the lower lights is fair enough and i did not argue against it, even though I don't necessarily agree. much depends on formations of course.

It is moot because I was making a point about last nights game, and recognised his place in big games, however he gets there is for you to crusade on.

Glad the point about the 'lesser' teams isn't so controversial, we'd be here all day.

Don't know as I don't spend any time over on rawk.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

It is moot because I was making a point about last nights game, and recognised his place in big games, however he gets there is for you to crusade on.

Glad the point about the 'lesser' teams isn't so controversial, we'd be here all day.

i'm not crusading

i was just picking you up on this

Park should not be starting when you need to break a side down, he should be in against Chelsea, or Arsenal etc as a stopper. & even that that was so we could release Ronnie last season. He's a pointless attacking weapon imo.

because it is clearly wrong.

I have listed more than enough evidence as to why it is wrong.

There was a stat flying around last season btw that showed that United had won about 20 games on the trot with Park starting. That would suggest that there is plenty of evidence that the rest of your point is probably disprovable by the facts, but frankly I can't be arsed.

We all see players differently and have blind spots where certain players are concerned, irrational or not.

people who dont rate Park are people who are clueless about football, links very well with Rooney, probably better in fact than any other player in the squad now that Ronaldo has left.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

There was a stat flying around last season btw that showed that United had won about 20 games on the trot with Park starting. That would suggest that there is plenty of evidence that the rest of your point is probably disprovable by the facts, but frankly I can't be arsed.

We all see players differently and have blind spots where certain players are concerned, irrational or not.

& my stats are that he has - as far as Google can tell me - 5 assists in the last 3 seasons. & 10 goals (not including the internationals). That's in nearly 80 appearances.

That's not affective enough to be a mainstay of a United side. His record against the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, & in semi finals, finals etc as an attacking force is worse. The fact you've dug up points about him "fizzng one past the post against Barca" shows you're reaching in the extreme for positives. 5 assists in 3 years for an attacking force is shit.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

& my stats are that he has - as far as Google can tell me - 5 assists in the last 3 seasons. & 10 goals (not including the internationals). That's in nearly 80 appearances.

That's not affective enough to be a mainstay of a United side. His record against the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, & in semi finals, finals etc as an attacking force is worse. The fact you've dug up points about him "fizzng one past the post against Barca" shows you're reaching in the extreme for positives. 5 assists in 3 years for an attacking force is shit.

oh dear

well for a start off Park has had a serious knee injury during the time you mention

Park started 37 of 78 games between his injury comeback at Xmas '07 and the 4-1 vermin defeat in March '09, including a fair smattering of the biggest ones. United won 29 and drew 7.

as we can see, he isn't a mainstay of the United side, he is a mainstay of the United squad. his record doubtless stands up very favourably against the likes of Anderson, Carrick, Scholes and Fletcher over the same period. Anderson has never scored, for example.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

well for a start off Park has had a serious knee injury during the time you mention

Park started 37 of 78 games between his injury comeback at Xmas '07 and the 4-1 vermin defeat in March '09, including a fair smattering of the biggest ones. United won 29 and drew 7.

as we can see, he isn't a mainstay of the United side, he is a mainstay of the United squad. his record doubtless stands up very favourably against the likes of Anderson, Carrick, Scholes and Fletcher over the same period. Anderson has never scored, for example.

I've only ever maintained he was a mainstay of the squad, touching on the fact he's not good enough to be a mainstay of the starting XI. The daily grind, the 30 league games a season against the lesser sides, the teams we previously rolled over time & again to help us with the previous 3 titles. Ronaldo's gone, as such the rest of the side needs to be scoring, Park's in the crosshairs now because he started last night on the wing in the position Ronnie would have played. To be starting in these games he should be justifying his inclusion as a player at his peak years, a seasoned international & as it stands, a mainstay of the squad. Yet when you look at his contribution, in a positive sense, he has barely anything statistically to back up his inclusion. He scores £#%&! all goals, he creates even less. Against the teams with packed defences & high work rates where your technique has to be rock solid, he fails.

Quite why you think Scholes & Anderson for instance are comparable playing at opposite ends of their careers in the middle of the park I'm not sure, but keep on trucking mate

I get the impression that both of you could keep going at it like this until the earth is eventually consumed by the sun as it expands towards the end of its life.

All of us will have died by this point - hopefully of natural causes. However, carry on like this and many of us will die much sooner than that just because like me and like a moth to the flame, we keep opening this thread up and inexplicably reading it.

So please stop this now - before it's too late for us.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I get the impression that both of you could keep going at it like this until the earth is eventually consumed by the sun as it expands towards the end of its life.

All of us will have died by this point - hopefully of natural causes. However, carry on like this and many of us will die much sooner than that just because like me and like a moth to the flame, we keep opening this thread up and inexplicably reading it.

So please stop this now - before it's too late for us.

Hear, hear.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

I've only ever maintained he was a mainstay of the squad, touching on the fact he's not good enough to be a mainstay of the starting XI. The daily grind, the 30 league games a season against the lesser sides, the teams we previously rolled over time & again to help us with the previous 3 titles. Ronaldo's gone, as such the rest of the side needs to be scoring, Park's in the crosshairs now because he started last night on the wing in the position Ronnie would have played. To be starting in these games he should be justifying his inclusion as a player at his peak years, a seasoned international & as it stands, a mainstay of the squad. Yet when you look at his contribution, in a positive sense, he has barely anything statistically to back up his inclusion. He scores £#%&! all goals, he creates even less. Against the teams with packed defences & high work rates where your technique has to be rock solid, he fails.

Quite why you think Scholes & Anderson for instance are comparable playing at opposite ends of their careers in the middle of the park I'm not sure, but keep on trucking mate

this really has become quite painful to see now tbh

football is a team game, and a squad game. all the players United use are comparable in many ways, particularly by the results they achieve together of course. if you aren't of the requisite quality your time as a regular starter will be short-lived. this is Park's 4th season. I'm sure he'll survive for as long as he has the support of the manager despite not having the support of all the fans.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I get the impression that both of you could keep going at it like this until the earth is eventually consumed by the sun as it expands towards the end of its life.

All of us will have died by this point - hopefully of natural causes. However, carry on like this and many of us will die much sooner than that just because like me and like a moth to the flame, we keep opening this thread up and inexplicably reading it.

So please stop this now - before it's too late for us.

i've tried to stop 3 times now. my best effort was the bit about how "we all have irrational hatreds of ceretain players but....." I honestly thought this would do the trick but it's not as straightforward as I thought it was going to be.