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Unread 22-06-2022, 03:08 PM
Bunker Buster
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharders
Can I shock you. I'm ex-military. If you think a "man" who enters a primary school with the intent of murdering children is "totally aware of his surroundings", then good look to you, son.

I know exactly how it works. I never said breaching single doors, either.
So how do you not know about containment and preserving hostage / none combatant life ?

He was aware of his surroundings as the room he was in he "owned" it was also his school, he was an ex pupil, he had in the first minutes control of the space.....

There's many things they could of done, there's things that could have tried etc, but if you have any knowledge at all you know any plan doesn't survive first contact with the enemy, looks like the very fluid and emotive situation was handled badly at the time....
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:10 PM
Jack Duckworth
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharders
Can I shock you. I'm ex-military. If you think a "man" who enters a primary school with the intent of murdering children is "totally aware of his surroundings", then good luck to you, son.

I know exactly how it works. I never said breaching single doors, either.


Looks like there's a new chef in town...
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:14 PM
tatty
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
As for the rest, this isn't Rambo 5 son...

..


He's given you the 'son' treatment there Sharders.

EXACTLY what Chuck Norris would do.
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:20 PM
Buck
 
Default

I do not understand how decisions like this carry any logic. This is supposed to make the public more confident and reassured about the safety at schools? If you ask me this does the total opposite.

Quote:
Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine said Monday that he has signed a bill into law that makes it much easier for teachers to legally carry guns in schools.

The measure drastically reduces the amount of training teachers and other staff are required to undergo before they can possess a firearm on school grounds. Instead of 700 hours of training, teachers will be able to finish in less than 24 hours.

“Our goal is to continue to help our public and private schools get the tools they need to protect our children,” DeWine said. “We have an obligation to do everything we can every single day to try and protect our kids.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ools-rcna32313
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:22 PM
Sharders
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
So how do you not know about containment and preserving hostage / none combatant life ?

He was aware of his surroundings as the room he was in he "owned" it was also his school, he was an ex pupil, he had in the first minutes control of the space.....

There's many things they could of done, there's things that could have tried etc, but if you have any knowledge at all you know any plan doesn't survive first contact with the enemy, looks like the very fluid and emotive situation was handled badly at the time....
This was clearly something that required a rapid response or quick reaction force. I respect the fact you mentioned bullets flying, had it myself and it's scary to say the least. However, this situation was too dynamic to require a containment. Tbh, not read the manual on containment for many years but it was part of the plastic coated manual given in basic military training.
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:24 PM
red red robbo
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
I do not understand how decisions like this carry any logic. This is supposed to make the public more confident and reassured about the safety at schools? If you ask me this does the total opposite.



https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ools-rcna32313
Are they sure about those figures? 700 hours training? That's over four months full-time training. That's more than we give recruits in the British army
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:26 PM
Sharders
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatty
He's given you the 'son' treatment there Sharders.

EXACTLY what Chuck Norris would do.
Water off a ducks back.
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:27 PM
Fat Al
 
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I can understand waiting for a minute or two to assess the situation, quick recce, etc.
But these c***s waited over an HOUR. If there is even the slightest possibility that even 1 child is alive, you have to go in ASAP. Yes, you will take casualties. But isn't that why Cleetus R. Horse****er is supposed to have joined. Protect & Serve.

Unarmed black man lawfully going about his business = Police officer Guillermo Grande Cojones.

Armed shooter slaughtering little kids = Police officer Pollo Poco Puta.


Texas, the Lone Star state? Pfffft, more like the Yellow Stripe state
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:30 PM
Bunker Buster
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharders
This was clearly something that required a rapid response or quick reaction force. I respect the fact you mentioned bullets flying, had it myself and it's scary to say the least. However, this situation was too dynamic to require a containment. Tbh, not read the manual on containment for many years but it was part of the plastic coated manual given in basic military training.
Apology accepted....
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:31 PM
Buck
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red red robbo
Are they sure about those figures? 700 hours training? That's over four months full-time training. That's more than we give recruits in the British army
It's accurate.

Quote:
Ohio’s Republican Governor Mike DeWine has signed a measure into law that allows teachers and school staff to bring firearms to school after a maximum of 24 hours of training, cutting down an earlier requirement of more than 700 hours.

House Bill 99 reverses a 2021 decision from the state’s Supreme Court, which ruled that armed school workers should first be required to undergo similar firearm training as law enforcement officers and security that carry weapon on campuses, in addition to local school board approval.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2099901.html
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 03:33 PM
Sharders
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Al
I can understand waiting for a minute or two to assess the situation, quick recce, etc.
But these c***s waited over an HOUR. If there is even the slightest possibility that even 1 child is alive, you have to go in ASAP. Yes, you will take casualties. But isn't that why Cleetus R. Horse****er is supposed to have joined. Protect & Serve.

Unarmed black man lawfully going about his business = Police officer Guillermo Grande Cojones.

Armed shooter slaughtering little kids = Police officer Pollo Poco Puta.


Texas, the Lone Star state? Pfffft, more like the Yellow Stripe state
Have a look at the Nairobi attack. Everyone stood back until the 22 lad went in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
Apology accepted....
No worries.
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 04:15 PM
windy waffles
 
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Like being at a dinner party with Andy McNab, Rudy Reyes and Private Pyle this thread...
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 06:27 PM
Dueling Banjos
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
I've seen men twice your size, athleticism and strength absolutely wilt as that first whistle of bullet velocity flies meters above your head ...

All the training in the world doesn't prepare you for that noise, that question in your mind, that fear to push through....
That's my biggest argument against the "good guy with a gun" mantra over here. So many think they'll turn into Jack or Jane Bauer when the bullets start flying whereas without any training whatsoever they're more likely to just piss themselves (and there's nothing wrong with that).

A colleague of my wife's at her school said once "One shot, that's all I'd need, one shot" and this is echoed by the ammosexual community all over. I asked him how a good a shot does he think he is? Never mind the intruder is more likely to have a long rifle, possible body armour, alarms going off, panicking adults and kids all over yet he still thinks he'll be calm enough to "take out" a former pupil of his?
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 06:46 PM
My Name is Heath
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth


Looks like there's a new chef in town...


“He was my instructor at Fort Bragg”

Bunks will look a total arse if sharders pulls out a hitherto unknown corden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharders
Have a look at the Nairobi attack. Everyone stood back until the 22 lad went in.



No worries.
Was working on Kenya then. Was working with a guy in intelligence and he told us some made stories there.
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 07:44 PM
Bunker Buster
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dueling Banjos
That's my biggest argument against the "good guy with a gun" mantra over here. So many think they'll turn into Jack or Jane Bauer when the bullets start flying whereas without any training whatsoever they're more likely to just piss themselves (and there's nothing wrong with that).

A colleague of my wife's at her school said once "One shot, that's all I'd need, one shot" and this is echoed by the ammosexual community all over. I asked him how a good a shot does he think he is? Never mind the intruder is more likely to have a long rifle, possible body armour, alarms going off, panicking adults and kids all over yet he still thinks he'll be calm enough to "take out" a former pupil of his?
More guys with guns is actually a hindrance in this instance, I'm with you completely....

When gun fire is cracking around your head, the confusion, the shouts, the lack of control, things feel like you're walking in mud, time and vision swings....
It's horrific, it's absolutely mental....it's a high level of buzz..

Havini less guns or guns in the hands of un-trained (high level) people is probably the way to go....

I don't know, it's one f***ed up country at times, where liberty and freedom is tossed around for political point scoring, lobbies and rights ...

[5 combat heavy warzones]
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 07:58 PM
Chris Quayd
 
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Even if the teach has got a shot like a traction engine any intruder can walk into a class locked and loaded and take him/her out before the teacher is able to take the safety off in time.
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 08:25 PM
Bunker Buster
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
Even if the teach has got a shot like a traction engine any intruder can walk into a class locked and loaded and take him/her out before the teacher is able to take the safety off in time.
Completely true, lockdown the schools ? That's the level they are partly at...

If a heavily armed kid gets in, it's going to be carnage most times, unless his bottle goes or he's challenged

Ring fence schools
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 09:26 PM
ragnorak
 
Default

In terms of group mentality I can understand how after the first couple 'froze' in terms of making the decision to go in it could spread to the others and they ended up where they did. Going down the rabbit hole with any of these american stories always makes me realise that I don't really understand them, one of the first responses I heard at the time was a politician demanding that elementary schools should be fortified.

they are all loopy
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 09:27 PM
Bunker Buster
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnorak
In terms of group mentality I can understand how after the first couple 'froze' in terms of making the decision to go in it could spread to the others and they ended up where they did. Going down the rabbit hole with any of these american stories always makes me realise that I don't really understand them, one of the first responses I heard at the time was a politician demanding that elementary schools should be fortified.

they are all loopy
Post above, yours, me

They probably should be right now, one gate in, one out, high security....

Shit innit.
 
Unread 22-06-2022, 09:35 PM
armchair
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
Post above, yours, me

They probably should be right now, one gate in, one out, high security....

Shit innit.
A lot are apparently. Jewish schools have had heavy security for a long time.

I think having schools as "gun free zones" is fine but americans seem to have taken that as no armed guards either. That's just stupid in a country with so many guns and school-shootings promoted in the media as a viable shot to fame for mentally ill teenagers.
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