Berbatov - close control

Berbie was awesome yesterday; he's looking so much stronger on the ball...

He also looks like he's been told to put the effort in chasing back and helping out midfield..

Originally Posted by One Love

I'd say Zidane was better.

Cantona was better than Zidane though.

Originally Posted by dodger

Cantona was better than Zidane though.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

The bit of skill towards the end where he carried the ball into the penalty box and to the by line before beating the two men (or was it one??) was sublime. I can't quite figure out how he did it and the player (or players) marking him just seemed to stand there, wondering what to do.

A pity that there was no one in the box to receive the pass or have a go at goal, if we'd scored it would have been a brilliant move.

seemed like he was playing with a sponge ball with his slippers on. I thought the whistle had gone, everyone seemed to slow down while berbatov ghosted past.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

Neither cente were top draw yesterday, from either side. Defences on top for the most part. West Ham's back four has been very good of late, Park and Noble have been solid, and the Swiss lad works his arse of defensively.

Berbatov, along with Ronaldo, were however our best attacking outlets for much of the game. Tevez worked hard but too often he was too deep when a ball came into the box. A shame really, could have had a couple of goals if he'd got in and around the six yard area - several superb passes from Ronaldo and Berbatov didn't get the finishes they deserved.

I really wish Tevez would look up a bit earlier when he receives the ball too, too often his head goes straight down and he simply turns and runs with it missing a pass that would arguably be the better option. Happened a lot in recent games.

Still, both playing well and seem to compliment each other too.

it does wind me up, that

get the impression sometimes that he knows what's on but gets a mental block

his decision-making against Everton was very poor

the biggest gripe i have with him is his movement

in fact the biggest problem United have this season going forward is the movement ahead of and around Berbatov and Ronaldo in particular - i lose count of the number of times either of those two shift the ball waiting for a pass to show and just end up being forced down a cul-de-sac by the defence cus nobody is adjusting their £#%&!ing position

OK, now for something controversial & I've not really thought it through a great deal so bare with me if it sounds %@#$&!s...

The way Berbie holds it up, the awareness & the touch.. .we really are missing out not having a midfielder who can get up & down & score. I'm thinking... *gulp* of a Lampard type here. Someone who can time a run & isn't scared of having a dig. Obviously, a Scholesy of 8 or 9 years ago would be the £#%&!ing ticket. But of all the players about now, I think Lampard would be ideal. He's a greedy @#%&!, but that's really what is required.

I'm off to lunch... will see how this goes down on my return...

edit - I have returned & I see it went down like the £#%&!ing Titanic. Nice.

Originally Posted by hollowman

he was 'ok' at best yesterday,didnt impose himself on the game as much as i would have liked.

he didnt however show some pace and get to a ball i didnt he was ever going to get to.

I guess I agree with Marlo on this, and seemingly no-one else. Thought he played far too deep, movement after he played the ball was poor, didn't show enough for Ronaldo, didn't get into the penalty area enough, and gave the ball away repeatedly through a combination of nonchalant short passes and holding onto it for too long (a few times this could have been costly). On the positive side, he did a very decent job of getting behind the ball when we lost possession and clearly upped his game towards the end of the match. Certainly don't see how that constitutes an "awesome" performance myself, but there you go.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

OK, now for something controversial & I've not really thought it through a great deal so bare with me if it sounds %@#$&!s...

The way Berbie holds it up, the awareness & the touch.. .we really are missing out not having a midfielder who can get up & down & score. I'm thinking... *gulp* of a Lampard type here. Someone who can time a run & isn't scared of having a dig. Obviously, a Scholesy of 8 or 9 years ago would be the £#%&!ing ticket. But of all the players about now, I think Lampard would be ideal. He's a greedy @#%&!, but that's really what is required.

I'm off to lunch... will see how this goes down on my return...

edit - I have returned & I see it went down like the £#%&!ing Titanic. Nice.

myself and whaley, amongst others, have been saying for a year and a bit that we need an attacking midfielder who can (a) carry the ball forward and (b) chip in with a few goals. that's the buy i'm expecting in the summer though i don't know who would fit the bill. diego, perhaps. de rossi, if available. joe cole is also a possibility, as i've said before: fergie rates him, he's english, he's not happy where he is and his (fantastic) talent can bloom with the right coaching. as i've said many times, i'd love anderson to become that player for us but i just can't see it atm.

Originally Posted by borsuk

myself and whaley, amongst others, have been saying for a year and a bit that we need an attacking midfielder who can (a) carry the ball forward and (b) chip in with a few goals. that's the buy i'm expecting in the summer though i don't know who would fit the bill. diego, perhaps. de rossi, if available. joe cole is also a possibility, as i've said before: fergie rates him, he's english, he's not happy where he is and his (fantastic) talent can bloom with the right coaching. as i've said many times, i'd love anderson to become that player for us but i just can't see it atm.

Get.This.Into.Your.Head.

Chelsea.Will.Not.Sell.Players.To.Us.

N.F.T.

Originally Posted by borsuk

myself and whaley, amongst others, have been saying for a year and a bit that we need an attacking midfielder who can (a) carry the ball forward and (b) chip in with a few goals. that's the buy i'm expecting in the summer though i don't know who would fit the bill. diego, perhaps. de rossi, if available. joe cole is also a possibility, as i've said before: fergie rates him, he's english, he's not happy where he is and his (fantastic) talent can bloom with the right coaching. as i've said many times, i'd love anderson to become that player for us but i just can't see it atm.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Get.This.Into.Your.Head.

Chelsea.Will.Not.Sell.Players.To.Us.

N.F.T.

chelsea are looking like a selling club to me atm and if they want to get the wage bill down and joe cole wants out they will sell. who would be in for him? us, maybe the dippers, probably city, maybe inter. and i think cole would want to work with fergie, given the chance. fergie's often complimented him in the past.

i.don't.think.they'd.have.much.choice.to.be.honest .

w.b.p.o.f.t.

Originally Posted by borsuk

chelsea are looking like a selling club to me atm and if they want to get the wage bill down and joe cole wants out they will sell. who would be in for him? us, maybe the dippers, probably city, maybe inter. and i think cole would want to work with fergie, given the chance. fergie's often complimented him in the past.

i.don't.think.they'd.have.much.choice.to.be.honest .

w.b.p.o.f.t.

Who have they sold then?

There is no evidence to support this, other than your own assumptions. If they wish to remain as challengers, we'll be the last club they sell to.

Originally Posted by borsuk

myself and whaley, amongst others, have been saying for a year and a bit that we need an attacking midfielder who can (a) carry the ball forward and (b) chip in with a few goals. that's the buy i'm expecting in the summer though i don't know who would fit the bill. diego, perhaps. de rossi, if available. joe cole is also a possibility, as i've said before: fergie rates him, he's english, he's not happy where he is and his (fantastic) talent can bloom with the right coaching. as i've said many times, i'd love anderson to become that player for us but i just can't see it atm.

Corocao-you posted what i was going to post. He must think selling their reserve left back constitues them being the new Spurs.

Originally Posted by borsuk

as i've said many times, i'd love anderson to become that player for us but i just can't see it atm.

The management and coaching staff have very rarely used him in that role though? Arsenal in the Cup and away at Lyon are the only game I remember him being played as the most advanced midfielder, with two players behind him allowing him to attack. He's generally been used in a much deeper role – something, on the whole, he's been very good at.

But I do agree to an extent with Baron. If Berba is going to hold the ball up in that manner, he needs players running ahead of him to pick out. I thought both he and Tevez were too deep when ever we looked to attacking quickly.

In fact, I found our whole performance very negative. Given the poor results we've had their over the years, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise. Still, it was very apparent that the full backs had been instructed not to push on (Rafael hardly crossed the half way line all game).

West Brom apart (a very shit side), I can’t remember us putting in one decent display away from home. At the end of the season it may very well be successful in bringing home an 18th title, but if we are to equal the scousers record, the romantic in me would like to see us do it the United way.

Originally Posted by borsuk

myself and whaley, amongst others, have been saying for a year and a bit that we need an attacking midfielder who can (a) carry the ball forward and (b) chip in with a few goals. that's the buy i'm expecting in the summer though i don't know who would fit the bill. diego, perhaps. de rossi, if available. joe cole is also a possibility, as i've said before: fergie rates him, he's english, he's not happy where he is and his (fantastic) talent can bloom with the right coaching. as i've said many times, i'd love anderson to become that player for us but i just can't see it atm.

Hmmm, I'd be surprised if we buy a central midfielder in the summer.
Much as I agree with what's been said it would require a bit of an about turn on who's been bought in these positions so far. Also, the midfielder you describe would have to be able to put in a shift further back down the pitch for ferguson to consider him and I can't think of anyone who really fits the bill well enough. Maybe Fergie thinks one of the ones he has already will do it.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Who have they sold then?

There is no evidence to support this, other than your own assumptions. If they wish to remain as challengers, we'll be the last club they sell to.

Originally Posted by koppas

Corocao-you posted what i was going to post. He must think selling their reserve left back constitues them being the new Spurs.

not quite. there's been a lot of talk from kenyon and abramovich about chelsea having to break even, and a lot of talk about how much abramovich has lost recently in the crash.

we'll see in the summer, eh.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

The management and coaching staff have very rarely used him in that role though? Arsenal in the Cup and away at Lyon are the only game I remember him being played as the most advanced midfielder, with two players behind him allowing him to attack. He's generally been used in a much deeper role – something, on the whole, he's been very good at.

But I do agree to an extent with Baron. If Berba is going to hold the ball up in that manner, he needs players running ahead of him to pick out. I thought both he and Tevez were too deep when ever we looked to attacking quickly.

In fact, I found our whole performance very negative. Given the poor results we've had their over the years, I guess it shouldn't be a surprise. Still, it was very apparent that the full backs had been instructed not to push on (Rafael hardly crossed the half way line all game).

West Brom apart (a very shit side), I can’t remember us putting in one decent display away from home. At the end of the season it may very well be successful in bringing home an 18th title, but if we are to equal the scousers record, the romantic in me would like to see us do it the United way.

it's the movement around both Berbatov and Ronaldo that's been the problem for me - too often players are standing still waiting to see what happens

the thing with the full-backs is noticeable, but then there's always a weakness behind if they bomb on and with Ronaldo in particular constantly drawing two players to him it looks as if he's been used out wide to create space elsewhere very deliberately - we get the right full-back in as often as ever with the switch ball, but on that side we have nobody really threatening the by-line, hence the squad could use a genuine right-winger. sticking Giggs out there yesterday was tactical evidence of this imo, and i hope United are looking to bring someone in. then again, i'm also looking forward to both Hargreaves' return, and to seeing how the twins might get used in tandem.

Originally Posted by borsuk

not quite. there's been a lot of talk from kenyon and abramovich about chelsea having to break even, and a lot of talk about how much abramovich has lost recently in the crash.

we'll see in the summer, eh.

Kenyon has been talking about breaking even for years.

Again, there is no proof they are a selling club. They have even sacked their manager just now, which indicates they are hardly happy with the current situation. I suspect they have given him a hefty pay off too

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

it's the movement around both Berbatov and Ronaldo that's been the problem for me - too often players are standing still waiting to see what happens

the thing with the full-backs is noticeable, but then there's always a weakness behind if they bomb on and with Ronaldo in particular constantly drawing two players to him it looks as if he's been used out wide to create space elsewhere very deliberately - we get the right full-back in as often as ever with the switch ball, but on that side we have nobody really threatening the by-line, hence the squad could use a genuine right-winger. sticking Giggs out there yesterday was tactical evidence of this imo, and i hope United are looking to bring someone in. then again, i'm also looking forward to both Hargreaves' return, and to seeing how the twins might get used in tandem.

Yea - and I wouldn't be confident with Scholes covering the full back (when they bomb on) like Fletcher and Carrick do

Evra is a big miss in games like this. With him behind Ronnie, teams can't afford to double up on our number 7. O'Shea (despite the horrible stick he gets on here) has generally done well in a defensive capacity – but he’s poor going forward. That's why I was surprised Rafael wasn’t given more license to attack.