West Ham v Manchester United - 23/12/23 12:30pm - Official Match Thread

Originally Posted by Finport Red

We’re feeding on scraps, chancewise. 1 or 2 a game max. We’re moving the ball about so much the opposition’s players would have time to build a wall across the goal before we are likely to shoot at it.

Our tactics don’t fit the type of forward we have at the minute. We have potentially a good counterattacking team, but this is sideward pass after sideward pass, followed by absolute carnage every time the other team gets the ball.

Most teams won't let us play counter attacking football unless they're chasing the game. They sit deep and strangle the game. They take their chances when they get them.

The first goal is crucial, especially if we can get it early. But we don't seem to play to that. We play slowly and ponder each pass. It suits most of the opposition we play.

We need to change the system. A lot of the players aren't good enough and injuries aren't helping but that doesn't excuse EtH's stubbornness to change.

Originally Posted by Lok

Most teams won't let us play counter attacking football unless they're chasing the game. They sit deep and strangle the game. They take their chances when they get them.

The first goal is crucial, especially if we can get it early. But we don't seem to play to that. We play slowly and ponder each pass. It suits most of the opposition we play.

We need to change the system. A lot of the players aren't good enough and injuries aren't helping but that doesn't excuse EtH's stubbornness to change.

Agree.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

have a little read of this pal

https://x.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1...741339739?s=20

I did read it. I also read how him having final say on transfers was "non-negotiable" in him taking the job. So, did he want these players or not??

Antony costing 82 million or 25 million is irrelevant in the context of him being shit. If ten Hag wanted him and 82m is what it took, then the next step is binary, we do it or we tell him we're not paying that much. Whichever you think we should have done, we're still left with the simple fact that ten Hag knew him, had worked with him and wanted him...and he's £#%&!ing garbage.

We also talk about Casemiro and being desperate, but maybe the reason we were so desperate was because he completely misjudged the De Jong situation and we wasted an entire summer going after another player ten Hag 'knew' who had no intention of ever joining.

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

I did read it. I also read how him having final say on transfers was "non-negotiable" in him taking the job. So, did he want these players or not??

Antony costing 82 million or 25 million is irrelevant in the context of him being shit. If ten Hag wanted him and 82m is what it took, then the next step is binary, we do it or we tell him we're not paying that much. Whichever you think we should have done, we're still left with the simple fact that ten Hag knew him, had worked with him and wanted him...and he's £#%&!ing garbage.

We also talk about Casemiro and being desperate, but maybe the reason we were so desperate was because he completely misjudged the De Jong situation and we wasted an entire summer going after another player ten Hag 'knew' who had no intention of ever joining.

Did you read the part where it said there were no lists of transfer targets so ten hag had to go with what he knew?


Like I said before, you employ half arsed people at the top and eventually it shows on the pitch.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Did you read the part where it said there were no lists of transfer targets so ten hag had to go with what he knew?


Like I said before, you employ half arsed people at the top and eventually it shows on the pitch.

So he didn't want them then? Fair enough then I suppose.

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

So he didn't want them then? Fair enough then I suppose.

That's not what i said is it. Again you're being obtuse.

But that's ok, you're allowed to vent. Everyone's pissed off.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

That's not what i said is it. Again you're being obtuse.

But that's ok, you're allowed to vent. Everyone's pissed off.

Ok..

So, again, which was it? Did he want them or not? Did he think these players - for which he paid an absolute fortune - would make us better or not? Whether they were part of a larger list of options or not doesn't dismiss the question itself does it? Things don't need to be complicated unless we want them to be, and that's usually done by people who don't want their early calls to turn out wrong.

Originally Posted by AK14

Evans and a 19 years debutant at the back
18 year old in midfield
19, 20 yr old and a moron up front

No surprise we’re on our arse.

Garnachers scores that chance and we go on to win. But when you’re relying on kids to win you games expect inconsistency.

Not good enough but still backing Tenners.

So am I as The american Parasites failed to back him properly in the transfer window last January & again last summer as he did'nt get his 1st choice targets & had to make do with 3rd choice for each of the positions that needed stengthening but we're not surprised as those parasites did the same thing with Mourinho & Ole because they only really bother to back any Manager when we finish outside the Top 4 & ads far as Im concerned that makes them worse than being parastes as it means they are also bloody usless & so are most of their lapdogs!

Originally Posted by Gordon Hill

So am I as The american Parasites failed to back him properly in the transfer window last January & again last summer as he did'nt get his 1st choice targets & had to make do with 3rd choice for each of the positions that needed stengthening but we're not surprised as those parasites did the same thing with Mourinho & Ole because they only really bother to back any Manager when we finish outside the Top 4 & ads far as Im concerned that makes them worse than being parastes as it means they are also bloody usless & so are most of their lapdogs!

You know that for a fact or are you just making it up?

So Onana and Mount were his 3rd choices were they? Just out of curiosity, who were his first choices and how would we have gotten their parent clubs to sell to us cheaply enough to comply with FFP?

Originally Posted by Gordon Hill

So am I as The american Parasites failed to back him properly in the transfer window last January & again last summer as he did'nt get his 1st choice targets & had to make do with 3rd choice for each of the positions that needed stengthening but we're not surprised as those parasites did the same thing with Mourinho & Ole because they only really bother to back any Manager when we finish outside the Top 4 & ads far as Im concerned that makes them worse than being parastes as it means they are also bloody usless & so are most of their lapdogs!

Most teams don't get their first choices. Liverpool wanted Bellingham but couldn't get him. They wanted caciedo and it didn't happen. They're still mounting a title challenge.

Their fans aren't huge fans of their owners either. But they have a good manager in place who makes up for the deficiencies in how the club is run. Obviously the Glazers are on another level of incompetence but the point still stands.

EtH's job would be easier with better owners, but it doesn't excuse these results.

Originally Posted by Lok

EtH's job would be easier with better owners, but it doesn't excuse these results.

It really does. Unless you think another manager change and shit cycle is required.

Originally Posted by RedNick80

It really does. Unless you think another manager change and shit cycle is required.

A new manager under the new structure that is about to be put in place.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Yeah he's overwhelmed with options to be fair to him.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

he’s hardly got a wealth of options.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Our other options are Pellistri, Rashford and Martial.

this is incorrect. we have options as far as players are concerned. and we have options in how we deploy them and what they are instructed to do.

Originally Posted by Finport Red

Our tactics don’t fit the type of forward we have at the minute. We have potentially a good counterattacking team, but....

Originally Posted by Lok

Most teams won't let us play counter attacking football....

We need to change the system.

so...

there isn't much point in having a centre forward, if he never gets any service. he shouldn't be there just as a distraction. the main issue is that 10h's favoured wide players are all players who like to cut in and shoot. either play them as split strikers or make them £#%&!ing pass (and drop them, if they don't).

then there is the top-heavy formation. you think the option for garnacho was rashford (10h thought he was the option for rasmus, but whatever). but the options for garnacho include amrabat or reguilon or shaw. the options include playing a £#%&!ing midfield and playing wide players who both defend and look to cross/pass, rather than just trying to work a shooting opportunity for themselves (or run into the nearest defender, like marcus expelliarmus). the options include not throwing the kitchen sink at... um... passing around the area pointlessly before losing the ball.

he has a ton of options. playing reguilon, shaw and dalot more as wingback/midfielders (and I don't mean midfielders as in inverted £#%&!ing fullback noncery), for example. dalot doesn't always choose a stupid shot instead of a simple pass inside.

credit for throwing big willy in. he's ready. same with mainoo, as we all know (even if he is "really slow"). but his refusal to play mainoo and amrabat together, except in forced desperation, is criminal.

The Scottish Player did £#%&! all today. antony did £#%&! all. and garnacho did everything wrong. so he subs rasmus. he deserves a kick in the @#%&! for that. he's not protecting him. he's destroying his will to live. and mine. £#%&!ing idiot.

start with the midfield. if we're solid in the middle, then we can afford a couple of risky tricksters trying stuff up top. what we cannot have a whole £#%&!ing thicket of risky tricksters (and a sighing rasmus) with no one behind to pick up the sorry pieces.

the price of antony is kind of irrelevant to how £#%&!ing ineffective and stupid he is, but.... he was correctly assessed as worth £25mio. but we paid a ridiculous amount because we look and are £#%&!ing desperate. we said we wouldn't pay over £40mio for mount, but as soon as the offer was rejected we increased it. ffs. if you know what a player is worth, don't pay more. we're like a soft dad that the kid knows will never carry out a threat.

de gea would have saved both goals, incidentally.

we did actually create chances somehow today, but the way garnacho was playing he should have been subbed by half-time.

Originally Posted by RedNick80

It really does. Unless you think another manager change and shit cycle is required.

You can't not change a manager simply because you don't want to change a manager, it has to be based on substance, otherwise sacking van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole were all mistakes. It's not some universal truth that it's either the players or the manager that's to blame.

Ten Hag either has it in him to succeed here or he doesn't, but the club is what's important not individuals. If you think you see a concrete reason why he's the right guy and we should stay the course then fair enough, but simply sticking with a failure just because of some nebulous idea of 'that's what we do' or 'another manager these @#%&!s saw off' is doing the club a disservice.

Notwithstanding the structure and bad ownership - we shouldn’t be -5 GD bad. We’re getting the absolute minimum from what we have.

Originally Posted by Stickman

Notwithstanding the structure and bad ownership - we shouldn’t be -5 GD bad. We’re getting the absolute minimum from what we have.

If everyone is fully fit our full strength team would be challenging for top 4.

For the whole season we have had atleast half a team out there who are effectively our reserves.

Of course it should be better , ETH and the players need to be doing better and more.

But mid table and a shit GD is exactly where we would be because our squad isn’t capable of anything higher.

Hopefully we get some injured players back, Casemiro, Martinez maybe diallo even and we can’t get some results till Ratcliffe comes in and in the summer we start to behave like a team that likes to win again , rather than a marketing company with a football team on the side which is what the glazers have it set up as currently.

Just got back.

Enjoyed that.

Originally Posted by Neo

Just got back.

Enjoyed that.

For 70 minutes it was fine. They had nothing and we had the better of the game. They're not a shite team and away from home it is what it is with how we're performing at the moment. As soon as they scored it was game over. Crumbled.

A decade ago we could go 1-0 down after 70 minutes and believe we'll still win, if not have a better chance of winning. But is never going to happen in the current climate.

When teams like arsenal and Liverpool were off the pace for the top of the table they either had ability and were soft, or were hard to play against but lacked the quality to get them over the lien. We have neither. Soft and lacking some serious quality.

No idea what the answer is.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

For 70 minutes it was fine. They had nothing and we had the better of the game. They're not a shite team and away from home it is what it is with how we're performing at the moment. As soon as they scored it was game over. Crumbled.

No, it wasn't. We lull ourselves into a false sense of security with low-risk, slow possession then concede.

I'd fancy any team in the top few divisions to get a result against us if they set up right.