As Milan tucked home their 3rd last night...

.....a wave of perspective washed over me.

With the high octaine nature of pretty much all our games this season it was strange to be able to watch the last 15 miutes of last night's game and reflect, rather than sit in a state of gut wrenching tension.

The disappointment was there for all to see. I logged onto here a few minutes ago and the first thread I saw just said 'BOTTLERS'.
This doesn't surprise me and there's no point dwelling over last night, collectively or individually, because there's no getting around the fact we were very very poor.

I'm not going to start pointing fingers at anyone because I'm sure there's a brand new thread for each player to do that.

Instead I think we need to take a step back, a deep breath and look at the bigger picture.

Look at where we were twelve months ago, Sixteen months ago. To be going into a semi final of the CL with an advantage seemed a million miles away and being able to make it all better by winning the title in City's back yard? Well, I think we all would've taken that.

I think we need to acknowledge that this squad is not the finished article. It's still two or three players away from being complete and one or two of the younger players are still developing both technically and in terms of experience and that showed last night.
The class of 99 was pretty much the finished article, what they achieved seemed like the pinnacle of greatness because they were complete and they had the set to prove it!
This squad isn't and it's testament to how far they've come that they are even close to emulating what 99 achieved.

Much has been made of Milan's ageing side, but last night their experience was the key difference (that and the fact they were considerably fresher). We missed players like Neville and Ferdinand. There was only really Giggs, VDS and Scholes in there with any wealth of experience. VDS was probably our best player and Giggs and Scholes were just disappointing.

Not that they are in direct competition, but Kaka proved he is three years ahead of Ronaldo in terms of development. Kaka excelled where Ronaldo was naive and frustrated.
These are the differences, but it doesn't matter as long as they learn from it. It should make Ronaldo, Fletcher, Vidic, Rooney and Carrick better players. They're all quality players and all are yet to reach their peak.

Players at that age need these kinds of evenings. It hurts, but it's necessary. It's a harsh way to learn, but many ways - it's the only way!

Last night's result was a culmination of things:

Poor tactics
Nerves
Tiredness
Quality of opposition
Too many below par individuals

But sometimes you just have to acknowledge that you're just not quite there yet and we're not. Oh, and Milan were excellent.

We've come a long way in the last twelve months in terms of the way we play (attacking football is all we wanted right?) and the way our players have grown up....but there's still more work to do.

We need Hargreaves. We need another striker. We need another right back. We need another winger.
This is all part of building another side and we just have to be patient.

But hey, the best part of the perspective?
Are we heading back home to the humdrum of the Premiership?

As if!

We're staring a double right in the face!

Not bad for a team that's not the finished article.

Alan Parry said in commentary last night that Europe is the one we really wanted.

He is wrong.

It's the Premiership.

Once we get that back and establish some sort of domestic equalibrium again THEN we can look to develop even further and win the CL as the best side again (Liverpool take note)

Last night was flat but it doesn't disguise how proud I am of them that they've come this far in such a short space of time.
I'm sure they'll get better and I'm sure they'll learn from what has been a marathon season.

Now, where were we?

Oh, yes. Let's win the league at City!

Good post, I'm glad someone else see we're not the finished article as you put it, yet.

Upon waking up this morning, I still can't get the press conference before the match out of my head.

Why did Fergie say we have no option but to play to our attacking strengths ? Something got lost in translation to the players if he truely meant that.

Top post JC

Sums up my sentiments this morning exactly

I think the media comparing Ronnie and Kaka is ridiculous. Kaka is 25 and close to his peak. Ronaldo is still a young lad and, despite his wonderful performances this season, is still learning. Games like last night will, hopefully, make him, Rooney, Carrick etc better players. They've shown this season (at home at least) that they can mix it with the big european sides. With the right additions to the squad, I really do think we can go one better next year and make the final.

Great post fella

I agree with most of your post, but slating Ronaldo is a bit much. Kaka was allowed to shine because we let him. Ronaldo on the other hand had Gattuso snapping at him every time he went near the ball and was often double man-marked. Our passing and moving was not good enough to give him any space, and our midfield (particularly Fletcher and Carrick) was incapable of shackling Kaka. This is precisely why we need Hargreaves. We also need a decent striker who can keep their defence occupied, because watching Fergie trying to shoehorn Rooney into this role is soul destroying. Relying on Saha to be fit and to do this has cost us alot this season. Had Larsson stayed on we may have stood a better chance last night.

Great post.
You have managed to put into words many things I couldn't.

If we are being realistic winning the league has to priority number1.
(We are not doing too bad on that front)

We have actually been prety poor in Europe this year bar 1 or 2 performances.
To get as far as we had was an achievement in itself.
Disapointing to go out at this late stage.

Top post JC!

Hey Torquers, how's Africa? They got the tinternet there now?

It's the fact that Kaka is Forward/Attacking midfielder and Ronaldo is a winger! Totally different positions, dunno why they get compared.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Top post JC!

Hey Torquers, how's Africa? They got the tinternet there now?

Algiers is dull and raining. Smoking is compulsory, and my hotel has 50 armed guards outside it. I had a choice of watching the match on either RAI Uno or Canal+ last night. Both sets of commentators spent the whole game taking the piss out of how bad we were.

Thank you JC, summed it up admirably.

Originally Posted by Torquemada

Algiers is dull and raining. .

Any intrigue?

Why are Liverpool in their second final in three years with what everyone acknowledges to be an inferior set of players to United?
They are tactically astute in Europe. United are tactically inept. nft

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Any intrigue?

That's Tangiers. No intrigue here, but the bar is a bit like a scene from that old French film Rififi.

Originally Posted by Torquemada

I agree with most of your post, but slating Ronaldo is a bit much. Kaka was allowed to shine because we let him. Ronaldo on the other hand had Gattuso snapping at him every time he went near the ball and was often double man-marked. Our passing and moving was not good enough to give him any space, and our midfield (particularly Fletcher and Carrick) was incapable of shackling Kaka. This is precisely why we need Hargreaves. We also need a decent striker who can keep their defence occupied, because watching Fergie trying to shoehorn Rooney into this role is soul destroying. Relying on Saha to be fit and to do this has cost us alot this season. Had Larsson stayed on we may have stood a better chance last night.

I haven't slated Ronaldo.

He was just poor. He has been for the last 4 or 5 games too.

It's constructive criticism. He'll learn from it.

Im even gonna send it to my mates!

Originally Posted by turkred

Why are Liverpool in their second final in three years with what everyone acknowledges to be an inferior set of players to United?
They are tactically astute in Europe. United are tactically inept. nft

because benitez rotated his players and rested them in the league. Earlier in the season the most knowledgeable fans in the world(tm) were moaning about the constant changes and him not playing his first 11 week in, week out. If he had they wouldn't be in the final. @#%&!s.

Tactics had £#%&! all to do with last night. The players never turned up.

yes, the players were poor, just felt nothing was done to try and change until it was too late. Let's just hope they turn up on saturday

agreed with the sentiments JC. with our first choice back for out(ok vidic played last night but he was understandably a little off the pace) it was always going to be an uphill struggle.losing Park and Saha as well has meant little rest for giggs, scholes etc. i thought last night was a game too far for us. we can do it against weaker teams in the prem but against a top side like milan we had to be 100% and we weren't.This might be heresy, but this is the least gutted i've been on us losing a euro semi. I want the league more than anything

Originally Posted by mr.sitter

agreed with the sentiments JC. with our first choice back for out(ok vidic played last night but he was understandably a little off the pace) it was always going to be an uphill struggle.losing Park and Saha as well has meant little rest for giggs, scholes etc. i thought last night was a game too far for us. we can do it against weaker teams in the prem but against a top side like milan we had to be 100% and we weren't.This might be heresy, but this is the least gutted i've been on us losing a euro semi. I want the league more than anything

I agree.

I don't feel as bad as I have in other years. The good part of being humbled is at least it's not edge of the seat and ultimately heartbreaking.

The margins between the top sides in the top competitions are very small so we need everyone fit and everyone fresh.

We got neither.