Ole has to be sacked TONIGHT

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

The only mitigation - why the hell are we still playing on artificial surfaces in the Champions League? Very different ball dynamics. Doesn't excuse Lingard or Ole's tactics but it's not a great surface..

It was causing the players problems from the off. I’ve heard plenty of players in podcasts express their dislike for playing on artificial surfaces and a few that couldn’t/wouldn’t play on them due to the harshness and the impact on their body. If you get your foot stuck on grass, it tears, if you do it on 4G, you tear, for instance. It’s more difficult to stop/turn, the bounce and run of the ball is different, the spin ( as evidenced by the chance Ronaldo had 2nd half). Sliding hurts, diving hurts. The players looked like they were playing on ice, tentative strides etc. Over time you can get used to it, but it’s a great leveller. Again, they have to play the conditions and were until the sending off. No excuse after that.

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

The only mitigation - why the hell are we still playing on artificial surfaces in the Champions League? Very different ball dynamics. Doesn't excuse Lingard or Ole's tactics but it's not a great surface.

It's odd. I was reading how Sutton had to pay to replace their artificial pitch (and lose a lot of non-match day revenue along the way) before being allowed into League 2 ffs. And here we are in the CL...

Originally Posted by dunk

It was causing the players problems from the off. I’ve heard plenty of players in podcasts express their dislike for playing on artificial surfaces and a few that couldn’t/wouldn’t play on them due to the harshness and the impact on their body. If you get your foot stuck on grass, it tears, if you do it on 4G, you tear, for instance. It’s more difficult to stop/turn, the bounce and run of the ball is different, the spin ( as evidenced by the chance Ronaldo had 2nd half). Sliding hurts, diving hurts. The players looked like they were playing on ice, tentative strides etc. Over time you can get used to it, but it’s a great leveller. Again, they have to play the conditions and were until the sending off. No excuse after that.

yup. not only will they have suffered on tuesday, with the ball getting stuck under their feet, but they will be suffering for days after, as it stresses different parts of the the ankles, etc.

you can partly blame the pitch for the sending off or the winning goal, which was mishit into the ground. you can't blame it for the lack of organisation or cojones.

Ole isn't going anywhere. A monkey could manage this squad to finish 4th, and that's the only metric that'll put his job on the line.

If he had any sense, he'd bring in a top coach as his assistant. That won't happen either though, in case it upset Carrick, Mike shorts or that weird Phil Jones clone.

We'll play shambolic football and win games because we have some great players, we'll look good if we can counter attack, and we'll fall short when it really counts. City, Chelsea and the dippers will clean up.

Good to be in a situation where almost everybody agrees that a failure to seriously compete for either the Premier League or Champions League should result in the manager being sacked. Hadn't been the case for too long.

The way under previous managers we successively took our squad backward was bizarre. We'd spend loads of money and end up in a worse situation at the end of it. Still don't understand how they managed it.

I know a lot of people think the club will be happy with just top 4 being enough, but I'm not so sure. The reason top 4 was seen as a bare minimum is because of how we struggled with it after Ferguson. 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 6th. 3rd and 2nd in the last two seasons must change that expectation. I wouldn't see Ole surviving distant 4th and an early Champions League elimination this time.

Originally Posted by 20LEgend1999

Good to be in a situation where almost everybody agrees that a failure to seriously compete for either the Premier League or Champions League should result in the manager being sacked. Hadn't been the case for too long.

The way under previous managers we successively took our squad backward was bizarre. We'd spend loads of money and end up in a worse situation at the end of it. Still don't understand how they managed it.

Trying to spend money without actually spending money.

Originally Posted by dunk

Trying to spend money without actually spending money.

What's changed since then?

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

Look at last night… Bitters, Vermin and Renters all winnings games they were expected to win. Routine victories with a few scares but winning. We had by far the easiest fixture and stunk the place out.


I do not believe his formation works or gets the best out of the players and we have individuals and not a team.

I see no change in that from last season so this one will be interesting but my only worry is he’ll keep his job regardless.

How did PSG do with Messi, Neymar and Mbappe playing and with super Poch in charge against the minnows of the group and with 11 men for the whole match?

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

Look at last night… Bitters, Vermin and Renters all winnings games they were expected to win. Routine victories with a few scares but winning.

...each at home, on non-plasticy pitch surfaces; Chelsea with a single goal scored by a player we didn't want here, Liverpool snatching their victory after falling behind (in spite of taking an early lead). Plus, there's really not that many teams that are 'easy' to beat in the Champions League (in spite of their country of origin and lack of A-list names on the team sheet).

Originally Posted by 20LEgend1999

What's changed since then?

We’re getting smarter at it and Covid has weakend the financial position of other teams? and Ole is prepared to risk going with no signing rather than taking what he can get, which implies he’s very, very secure in his position.

Originally Posted by Time For Heroes

How did PSG do with Messi, Neymar and Mbappe playing and with super Poch in charge against the minnows of the group and with 11 men for the whole match?

Ooohhhhh burn…

Originally Posted by BarryX

...each at home, on non-plasticy pitch surfaces; Chelsea with a single goal scored by a player we didn't want here, Liverpool snatching their victory after falling behind (in spite of taking an early lead). Plus, there's really not that many teams that are 'easy' to beat in the Champions League (in spite of their country of origin and lack of A-list names on the team sheet).

The grass (or astroturf) is always greener..

We @#%&!ted a much better Leipzig 5-0 last season with a poorer side btw.

I can understand Ole backers coming from a position of loyalty. He’s the manager, a club legend, really nice bloke, has done a good job of clearing out some deadwood.

All those are reasons to back him.

Faith in his ability as a top level manager definitely ISN’T a reason to be backing him though.

Originally Posted by Time For Heroes

How did PSG do with Messi, Neymar and Mbappe playing and with super Poch in charge against the minnows of the group and with 11 men for the whole match?

ouch

Originally Posted by tatty

I can understand Ole backers coming from a position of loyalty. He’s the manager, a club legend, really nice bloke, has done a good job of clearing out some deadwood.

All those are reasons to back him.

Faith in his ability as a top level manager definitely ISN’T a reason to be backing him though.

The biggest gap in Ole's reign is a lack of a top, top coach/assistant manager.
Fergie nearly always had a very good second in command; Archie, Kiddo, Carlos, etc. I don't see anyone on the bench who offers variation on the United theme. The new dead ball coach has come in and made a difference - a new passing coach seems long overdue.

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

The biggest gap in Ole's reign is a lack of a top, top coach/assistant manager.
Fergie nearly always had a very good second in command; Archie, Kiddo, Carlos, etc. I don't see anyone on the bench who offers variation on the United theme. The new dead ball coach has come in and made a difference - a new passing coach seems long overdue.

This is a very valid point (saw something similar mentioned in the other thread). He should give the current team the first half of the season and re-assess then: if we're looking good on all fronts, then stick with them until it's mathematically impossible to win the league (which let's hope doesn't happen), but if we continue our poor in the CL (from the last few years) then get someone with European experience on board. Might be problematic bringing in someone older/with more success than him, though?

Originally Posted by BarryX

This is a very valid point (saw something similar mentioned in the other thread). He should give the current team the first half of the season and re-assess then: if we're looking good on all fronts, then stick with them until it's mathematically impossible to win the league (which let's hope doesn't happen), but if we continue our poor then get someone with European experience on board. Might be problematic bringing in someone older/with more success than him, though?

Then bin Ole off. I'd rather he stay and be successful, but if he can't listen to anyone except Sir Alex, we're in trouble.

Originally Posted by BarryX

This is a very valid point (saw something similar mentioned in the other thread). He should give the current team the first half of the season and re-assess then: if we're looking good on all fronts, then stick with them until it's mathematically impossible to win the league (which let's hope doesn't happen), but if we continue our poor then get someone with European experience on board. Might be problematic bringing in someone older/with more success than him, though?

How is it so obvious to everyone but him/the club? I don't think its a threat to him as the tactical coaches of the past we have had have always been shite managers. Get one who knows he's good at being the coach only and happy days.

Even if he does a Kidd/Maclaren/Quieroz and leaves after X years of success thinking he can manage at least we'll have had the X years with a team with a more coherent plan.

I back Ole, and it is good to see that others do. We played turgid football regularly under LvG and Morinho. I have blocked out the Moyes months. Okay, we won a few things, but never once did I feel I was watching the United I have followed for 50+ years. I like what Ole is building here, and I back him to succeed.

It is a fair point that from 2001-2013 SAF had either Meulensteen or Quieroz alongside, and perhaps this (along with a DM) is what is required. I always feared that modern, non-matchgoing/online fans would crave instant and continuous success. Trolls, WUMs and the painfully stupid dominate discussions - knee-jerk reactions and the agendas of the fickle posters who crave attention take over.

We dismantled Leeds and Newcastle at home, and were less impressive away, but still did not lose. The Young Boys defeat was disappointing, but not a catastrophe. The artificial pitch has been mentioned, and the poor refereeing. Ethers’ post was excellent, and the point made by Time for Heroes made many on here look silly. We are top of the league ffs!

Originally Posted by Red_Rizla

I back Ole, and it is good to see that others do. We played turgid football regularly under LvG and Morinho. I have blocked out the Moyes months. Okay, we won a few things, but never once did I feel I was watching the United I have followed for 50+ years. I like what Ole is building here, and I back him to succeed.

It is a fair point that from 2001-2013 SAF had either Meulensteen or Quieroz alongside, and perhaps this (along with a DM) is what is required. I always feared that modern, non-matchgoing/online fans would crave instant and continuous success. Trolls, WUMs and the painfully stupid dominate discussions - knee-jerk reactions and the agendas of the fickle posters who crave attention take over.

We dismantled Leeds and Newcastle at home, and were less impressive away, but still did not lose. The Young Boys defeat was disappointing, but not a catastrophe. The artificial pitch has been mentioned, and the poor refereeing. Ethers’ post was excellent, and the point made by Time for Heroes made many on here look silly. We are top of the league ffs!

Realise that there’s this automatic need for everyone to fall under one particular camp or another but how many on here are actually asking for ole to be booted? As far as I can work out, probably only Saffers and scar. Both are wums and in scars case, a professional one.

I think many people are simply questioning Ole’s ability to utilitise this squad to its maximum and deliver the success it probably justifies. Might come as a shock but that’s a fairly common theme amongst football fans - especially concerning managers that have not yet delivered, but even amongst those that have.

It’s no £#%&!ing big deal and it’s more weird to try and close any questions down.

Originally Posted by 20LEgend1999

What's changed since then?

Our present manager has - generally - made better signings than his predecessors?