Ole

Originally Posted by Patty_b

:
Mate, you've said we look poorly coached loads before, every time we put in a shit performance. It's a #@&%!ed criticism that has been put on the manager for ages, and was put on Mou before Ole. It's almost meme territory now. Maybe at times its just a shit performance, from a team that's not as good as wished it was, rather than some sort of major issue with coaching.

Ole has bad games. Martial has bad games. De Gea has bad games. Who gets to decide what’s justified criticism? We either cast an even eye over all of them or none of them, and yes I’m afraid of him getting the sack - it’s absolutely the last thing I want, but based on last season, how our rivals have improved and how we’ve started I think we could just as easily end up 8th as 3rd. I don’t want players like Pogba getting a manager I have faith in tinned because he’s making the mistake of trying too hard to keep him onside. Pogba’s not the only one either.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

I'm judging him as a manager, a manager that is trying to build a new team almost from the ground up with talented youth with his hands tied behind his back and a squad still overloaded with shit@#%&!s.

Lashing out £#%&!ing hell

You really aren't.

FWIW Everton are currently top of the league with a starting 11 containing seamus coleman, alex iwobi and michael keane.

It's incredible, seasoned nothing shit@#%&!s suddenly playing like they have a clue.

I can't think why.

Originally Posted by believe

Ole's somehow turned in to a "young" manager overnight

Ole is 47, Ferguson finished at 71?. Think it's fair to say that 47 is young.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

You really aren't.

FWIW Everton are currently top of the league with a starting 11 containing seamus coleman, alex iwobi and michael keane.

It's incredible, seasoned nothing shit@#%&!s suddenly playing like they have a clue.

I can't think why.

Not started a league game as yet, but carry on.

Originally Posted by dunk

Ole is 47, Ferguson finished at 71?. Think it's fair to say that 47 is young.



Not started a league game as yet, but carry on.

Oh wow, well that completely invalidates everything i just said.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Oh wow, well that completely invalidates everything i just said.

It does a bit tbf You're trying to imply Everton are top with shit players in the team, he's the shittest of the 3 named and isn't in the team

Originally Posted by Sparky***

You really aren't.

FWIW Everton are currently top of the league with a starting 11 containing seamus coleman, alex iwobi and michael keane.

It's incredible, seasoned nothing shitc***s suddenly playing like they have a clue.

I can't think why.

and Watford were top of the Premier League this time two seasons ago.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Oh wow, well that completely invalidates everything i just said.

In fairness they’ve looked good for three games. Let’s see if they sustain it before annointing Ancelotti eh? Over the last decade he’s had as many failures as successes mate.

Originally Posted by dunk

It does a bit tbf You're trying to imply Everton are top with shit players in the team, he's the shittest of the 3 named and isn't in the team

I'm trying to imply that good coaches can get average players to play above their level. Poor coaches have good players playing below their level. But yeah i'm sure it's a coincidence that Everton's best start to a season in about 30 years happens the minute they put a world class coach in charge.

Originally Posted by 20LEgend1999

and Watford were top of the Premier League this time two seasons ago.

Were they? What a lovely story. Put it in your ole- wolly notepad, next to your ole lunchbox.

Originally Posted by utd99

In fairness they’ve looked good for three games. Let’s see if they sustain it before annointing Ancelotti eh? Over the last decade he’s had as many failures as successes mate.

Yeah he's well shit.

Originally Posted by dunk

Ole is 47, Ferguson finished at 71?. Think it's fair to say that 47 is young.



Not started a league game as yet, but carry on.

He’s been in management for thirteen years no one has ever used the excuse before and it’s been mentioned four or five times in the last day.

Ferguson was 45 when he came here and I doubt anyone was saying he was a young manager then.

My position on this is fair clear and consistant. The two people I feel most affinity towards - the ones I want to see succeed the most - are Ole and Rashford. However, I’ll cane the @#%&!s week in and week out if need be because above and beyond all that %@#$&!s I’m a United supporter and I don’t believe in excuses. They’re poisonous.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I'm trying to imply that good coaches can get average players to play above their level. Poor coaches have good players playing below their level. But yeah i'm sure it's a coincidence that Everton's best start to a season in about 30 years happens the minute they put a world class coach in charge.

It also helps when you play newly promoted West Brom who only have 10 men and get ludicrous penalties at Palace rather than have ludicrous penalties given against you.

Michael Keane has always been a very good CB, Seamus Coleman has always been a very good RB. He’s replaced the entire midfield and added James, of course they’re better ffs

Originally Posted by believe

He’s been in management for thirteen years no one has ever used the excuse before and it’s been mentioned four or five times in the last day.

Ferguson was 45 when he came here and I doubt anyone was saying he was a young manager then.

Think they were tbh, and he was making plenty of mistakes.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Yeah he's well shit.

I didn’t say that did I? I’d have had no problem with him managing here, but I feel like, the type of old school manager he is, it’s becoming harder to succeed with these new wave primadonna players.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

You really aren't.

FWIW Everton are currently top of the league with a starting 11 containing seamus coleman, alex iwobi and michael keane.

It's incredible, seasoned nothing shit@#%&!s suddenly playing like they have a clue.

I can't think why.

How do you know that I'm not

Originally Posted by utd99

Ole has bad games. Martial has bad games. De Gea has bad games. Who gets to decide what’s justified criticism? We either cast an even eye over all of them or none of them, and yes I’m afraid of him getting the sack - it’s absolutely the last thing I want, but based on last season, how our rivals have improved and how we’ve started I think we could just as easily end up 8th as 3rd. I don’t want players like Pogba getting a manager I have faith in tinned because he’s making the mistake of trying too hard to keep him onside. Pogba’s not the only one either.

I don't disagree with that, he can be criticised for selections and how the team sets up, although I think it needs to be taken into consideration that the team can also just be £#%&!ing shite.

But it's the repeated criticisms that we aren't well coached that, imo, are £#%&!ing #@&%!ed. It's just defeatist and pretty much writing him off before he's had any real time build a new squad and move the team on. And it's patently bullshit, because it's not banded about when we go on long undefeated or winning runs, when we must magically be well coached all of a sudden, its only banded about when the team put in an abject display, something that has been happening under some of the most high profile managers in the world over the past 5 years+

Originally Posted by Patty_b

I don't disagree with that, he can be criticised for selections and how the team sets up, although I think it needs to be taken into consideration that the team can also just be £#%&!ing shite.

But it's the repeated criticisms that we aren't well coached that, imo, are £#%&!ing #@&%!ed. It's just defeatist and pretty much writing him off before he's had any real time build a new squad and move the team on. And it's patently bullshit, because it's not banded about when we go on long undefeated or winning runs, when we must magically be well coached all of a sudden, its only banded about when the team put in an abject display, something that has been happening under some of the most high profile managers in the world over the past 5 years+

Ok, so let’s end on this then. There’s no way you could look at the the positioning of our defence over the first two games, particularly Lindelof last week and AWB yesterday, and conclude that they appear well coached. I’m also willing to concede that some players are uncoachable and perhaps they end up being drummed out. I’m not putting it all on him, but I’m not excusing him either. He’s not beyond £#%&! ups.

AWB was hiding next to the RCB yesterday whenever defending. He was £#%&!ed second half.

Originally Posted by dunk

Not just Pogba either, as he said yesterday, we're slow getting out to stop crosses as we just aren't fit and sharp enough. It looks like laziness, but it's a subconscious conserving of energy, not quite reacting quick enough as you're trying avoid expending unnecessary energy. AWB barely broke out of a jog going back towards his own goal until it was abundantly clear he had to make a tackle. Shaw last week didn't track Townsend sufficiently because he was gambling/hoping the ball doesn't get to him, Lindelof dropped off a little too much as he wasn't confident in himself to win the chase with whoever it was that put the ball over for the first goal, went into the tackle for the 3rd goal a smidge late and at 70% as not quite sure of himself etc. loads of tiny little decisions that end up looking horrendous that they make differently when fully fit and match sharp. The margins at this level are £#%&!ing fine and it doesn't take a lot for you to be shown up. That's not to say that all those players are perfect when fully fit or make excuses for them. Sometimes there really are reasons for what we are seeing.

I don't think we'll see anything like a proper performance until mid/late October tbph.



Europa League Final, Carabao Cup Final

While I don't disagree with that, Dunk. How long I this 'no prep' excuse allowed to fly? Why mid-October. We're a week behind everyone else. That's it. Yesterday was our 3rd game of the season. Last week was Palace's 3rd game of the season - where we were all united in agreeing they looked sharper and fitter.

We should be up to speed by now, or at least as much as other teams.

And some of the issues are longstanding.

Fitness and sharpness have nothing to do with this failed Pogba and passing from the back experiments, the continued selection of Lindelof, or the chopping and changing of Matic, The Scottish Player and Fred.

These all need serious work that wont just go away with some miles under the belt.

I think we'll improve and we know this team in collectively and individually better than what we're seeing, but 99ers has a point that we should be able to be honest about what we see without excusing it all away or it meaning we want the manager out.

Originally Posted by dunk

AWB was hiding next to the RCB yesterday whenever defending. He was £#%&!ed second half.

How the £#%&! do you not look over your shoulder though? £#%&!ed or not, how can he not know where the danger is time and again?

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

While I don't disagree with that, Dunk. How long I this 'no prep' excuse allowed to fly? Why mid-October. We're a week behind everyone else. That's it. Yesterday was our 3rd game of the season. Last week was Palace's 3rd game of the season - where we were all united in agreeing they looked sharper and fitter.

We should be up to speed by now, or at least as much as other teams.

And some of the issues are longstanding.

Fitness and sharpness have nothing to do with this failed Pogba and passing from the back experiments, the continued selection of Lindelof, or the chopping and changing of Matic, The Scottish Player and Fred.

These all need serious work that wont just go away with some miles under the belt.

I think we'll improve and we know this team in collectively and individually better than what we're seeing, but 99ers has a point that we should be able to be honest about what we see without excusing it all away or it meaning we want the manager out.

It's longer than that. And teams that have had decent pre-seasons (Palace played 4(?) pre-season games and 3 competitive games before last week? Liverpool were back for Pre-season while we were playing EL etc.) are still looking ropey. I'm not saying we won't get results, I just think it's going to be a grind for a while.

Originally Posted by utd99

How the £#%&! do you not look over your shoulder though? £#%&!ed or not, how can he not know where the danger is time and again?

No idea, I'm assuming just hoping to get away with it. The equaliser was Bruno not following March though, the 3 in the middle (including AWB) all had a man.

Probably should've taken a forward/Bruno off and thrown The Scottish Player/TFM on for the last 5-10 minutes tbh. Was pretty clear they were £#%&!ed and not following runners.

Originally Posted by dunk

It's longer than that. And teams that have had decent pre-seasons (Palace played 4(?) pre-season games and 3 competitive games before last week? Liverpool were back for Pre-season while we were playing EL etc.) are still looking ropey. I'm not saying we won't get results, I just think it's going to be a grind for a while.

You could argue that with less time off, we've played more recently and sharpness should be less of an issue than tiredness.

While I sympathise to a point, I think it's being blown out of proportion, frankly. We went into the Palace game with optimism last week, now we're talking about sharpness and how such poor performances should more or less be accepted.

City didn't lack sharpness like us last week. And they've got injury problems.

I don't want this to become an excuse for us.

Originally Posted by utd99

My position on this is fair clear and consistant. The two people I feel most affinity towards - the ones I want to see succeed the most - are Ole and Rashford. However, I’ll cane the @#%&!s week in and week out if need be because above and beyond all that %@#$&!s I’m a United supporter and I don’t believe in excuses. They’re poisonous.

Hang on, are you saying Ole and Rashford are poisonous? I know you’ve already said that, but hoping it might be a mistake?