Manchester United v Arsenal Official Match Thread 1/11/20 4:30pm

Originally Posted by bosskeano

i don't understand this Pogba agenda bullshit....

there is no agenda against the guy other than the expectations to perform week in and week out. If you're a guy that is going to change hair color weekly, be allover social media, throwing out rap videos, all of which are attention getters , then you have to back it up with how you play on the pitch.

He's done £#%&! all in 2 years with United and everyone wants to play some sort of £#%&!ing agenda and bias. That's crap. Pogba started this by making himself a brand, well that garners attention off the pitch, so of course criticism will follow if you don't actually do the job you are being paid to do.

If you can't see the lack of energy and urgency, the sheer volume of turning the ball over, the lack of willingness to defend properly or track back then yeah Pogba is brilliant.

He's been here 4 years mate

Originally Posted by Sparky***

https://youtu.be/IUwWYcGk91c

I don’t think that’s the issue. A bit too simplistic to basically just say ‘roll your sleeves up’.

I don’t think there’s a lack of effort there from the majority of them. Theres a lack of direction, composure, decision-making and when the system isn’t right and players aren’t sure what they are doing, they can look very poor very quickly.

Maguire, Bruno, The Scottish Player are solid, hard working characters. They seem like good pros.

Cavani is experienced. Fred, although limited, works hard. Wan bisakka works hard.

We’ve seen Bruno take games by the scruff of the neck, so I don’t think it’s a case of lacking characters.

Rashford is being hailed as the finest young man in the country yet today we’re questioning his attitude.

No, I don’t buy this one.

One or two, maybe, but if the whole team looks shot then the accusations have got to turn to the manager. Players reflect their manager. Look at Arsenal. All playing for Arteta. Yet it’s largely the same group he inherited as the very cliched epitome of weak-willed.

There’s gaps in quality in certain areas, but that can be mitigated with good coaching and any player will look elevated if they know their job, play to their strengths and have faith in what they’re being told to do.

Obviously this applies to some individuals more than others. But when I look at our team, I think we should be better than what we are. It’s a better team on paper than Arsenal’s and had many before the game predicting a comfortable win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wdAhvnW8As

Didn't see any of this because I turned off in disgust at the final whistle.

£#%&!ing love Keano. Dishing reality checks all over the show.

I think the problem is that keane is from a generation where footballers were expected do a lot more self management on the pitch. The days of "just give it quicker and move the ball forward quicker" and other vague instructions are long gone.

If footballers of 25 years ago were Volkwagen Golfs that needed the odd service now and again to keep ticking over, by comparison today's footballers are formula 1 cars, they need to be micro managed and instructed for every minute they're on that pitch.

I mean look at the modern day manager - prowling the touchline, screaming instructions non stop, working relentlessly on patterns of play, pressing, tactical fouls and moving players about the pitch like chess pieces.

I think that's half the problem with our manager - he think he's managing a group of 90s men and makes the mistake of entrusting them too much.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

He's been here 4 years mate

just referencing the time frame of Ole because he's put a shit ton of faith is this £#%&!er only to be let down time and time again

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I think the problem is that keane is from a generation where footballers were expected do a lot more self management on the pitch. The days of "just give it quicker and move the ball forward quicker" and other vague instructions are long gone.

If footballers of 25 years ago were Volkwagen Golfs that needed the odd service now and again to keep ticking over, by comparison today's footballers are formula 1 cars, they need to be micro managed and instructed for every minute they're on that pitch.

I mean look at the modern day manager - prowling the touchline, screaming instructions non stop, working relentlessly on patterns of play, pressing, tactical fouls and moving players about the pitch like chess pieces.

I think that's half the problem with our manager - he think he's managing a group of 90s men and makes the mistake of entrusting them too much.

Agreed. Keane is very old school. We know this and he looks through his own lens, as someone who is a winner and is motivated anyway. Not everyone is like him and that reflected in his management.

I don’t think the issues are mutually exclusive either.

We all know what confidence can do in football and if the players aren’t confident in the manager, if they aren’t sure about the plan, they doubt themselves. All that can make them look slower, lazier, and all those bad aspects that look solely on the player.

And, rightly or wrongly, the buck stops will Ole. It always falls on the manager in the end. We can see what this group can do when they play well, but it’s looking increasingly unlikely that he is capable of getting them to do it with any consistency, where either complacency or bad habits kick back in.

Meanwhile, we have standards and targets to maintain and we are quickly heading to the point where that will necessitate him being sacked.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wdAhvnW8As

Didn't see any of this because I turned off in disgust at the final whistle.

£#%&!ing love Keano. Dishing reality checks all over the show.

Keane

I’d have him in as a coach and I know people will argue against it but at this point why £#%&!ing not.

He’s right about the players obviously and it’s been said many times on here for years.

Still for this game Ole has to takes some of the blame.

keane is spot on....it's not up to the manager to provide motivation or to get them mentally ready to step on the pitch

the guys are professional footballers, they should be self motivated to show up and perform

Originally Posted by AK14

Keane

I’d have him in as a coach and I know people will argue against it but at this point why £#%&!ing not.

He’s right about the players obviously and it’s been said many times on here for years.

Still for this game Ole has to takes some of the blame.

Keane is one of the few who tell it like it is because he doesn’t have half an eye on staying sweet with the club or what’s going to happen when he runs into Woodward or any of the players he has to critique. If he posted on here he’d be called a bed wetter. Madness.

https://twitter.com/utdarena/status/1323226158742360068?s=20

Basically, they were all shit.

Yeah, I stopped at the bit where he was analysing the formation literally at the kick off

Originally Posted by Ethers

Yeah, I stopped at the bit where he was analysing the formation literally at the kick off

That was daft, and in places he's taking the piss, but on the whole it's interesting.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I think the problem is that keane is from a generation where footballers were expected do a lot more self management on the pitch. The days of "just give it quicker and move the ball forward quicker" and other vague instructions are long gone.

If footballers of 25 years ago were Volkwagen Golfs that needed the odd service now and again to keep ticking over, by comparison today's footballers are formula 1 cars, they need to be micro managed and instructed for every minute they're on that pitch.

I mean look at the modern day manager - prowling the touchline, screaming instructions non stop, working relentlessly on patterns of play, pressing, tactical fouls and moving players about the pitch like chess pieces.

I think that's half the problem with our manager - he think he's managing a group of 90s men and makes the mistake of entrusting them too much.

It’s too simple to put it down to ‘modern’ footballers, and puts an impossible onus back on the manager to have every single solution to every single problem with these players. Liverpool have modern footballers too; so do Bayern Munich. The biggest problem Ole has is not how he can be a wet nurse to these mamby @#%&! but how he can dispense with the notion that he has to be.

The hyperbole surrounding Arteta is nauseating, but I give him massive credit for having the balls to exile Ozil, because you know he’s going to get shit every time Arsenal struggle to create. He’s obviously realised that this type, despite the profile, will let him down over and over.

Keane hit the nail on the head think he’s said it before. They take easy options , don’t gamble , Bruno was doing this every game he isn’t know. Watch the centre half’s slow pass side to side , other teams the full backs are up past the halfway ready to go. The press yesterday ffs arsenal every town two passes and past halfway. It’s not £#%&!ing hard to coach surely isn’t.

they don't take the easy options. they make stupid choices and put each other under pressure. all the time.

Originally Posted by utd99

It’s too simple to put it down to ‘modern’ footballers, and puts an impossible onus back on the manager to have every single solution to every single problem with these players. Liverpool have modern footballers too; so do Bayern Munich. The biggest problem Ole has is not how he can be a wet nurse to these mamby @#%&! but how he can dispense with the notion that he has to be.

The hyperbole surrounding Arteta is nauseating, but I give him massive credit for having the balls to exile Ozil, because you know he’s going to get shit every time Arsenal struggle to create. He’s obviously realised that this type, despite the profile, will let him down over and over.

The problem is that I get the impression that beyond the basics of a team shape, our players have no structure or basis in place to go and properly dominate a game of football. We do, on rare occasions, don't get me wrong, but far too often we completely run out of ideas because we seem to place a lot of emphasis on getting the ball to 1 or 2 players and expecting them to create literally everything. At no point in the game yesterday watching United attack did i think "there's a goal coming here". Not once. See how much of a problem we had when Martial is gone, that's one less player we had to create so all our entire attacking play has to go through Fernandes and Rashford. That's it. If they don't create or score, nobody else is. For what seems like the £#%&!ing thousandth time in the last 4 years we've seen a team come to our home ground, dogged and organised, we can't break them down...the end.

The amount of times we leave the man on the ball isolated, players laying the ball off and just standing there nobody overlaps, nobody overloads the wide areas.

And that's not even getting into how atrocious we are without the ball. You won't see another top club out there with a team who are as passive and easy to play through as we are. With supposedly two "defensive" midfielders on the £#%&!ing pitch as well. Maybe it might be an idea that you'd like to start winning possession higher up the pitch because when you're constantly having to build attacks from your own 18 yard box with defenders who can't pass very well and two central midfielders who are average, sideways-passing,creative vacuums, you're making your own problems.

Originally Posted by jem

they don't take the easy options. they make stupid choices and put each other under pressure. all the time.

This 100% this. The amount of £#%&!ing suicide passes we played to each other yesterday. Just smacked of people 'getting rid' of the ball and passing responsibility on to the next one

Originally Posted by Sparky***

The problem is that I get the impression that beyond the basics of a team shape, our players have no structure or basis in place to go and properly dominate a game of football. We do, on rare occasions, don't get me wrong, but far too often we completely run out of ideas because we seem to place a lot of emphasis on getting the ball to 1 or 2 players and expecting them to create literally everything. At no point in the game yesterday watching United attack did i think "there's a goal coming here". Not once. See how much of a problem we had when Martial is gone, that's one less player we had to create so all our entire attacking play has to go through Fernandes and Rashford. That's it. If they don't create or score, nobody else is. For what seems like the £#%&!ing thousandth time in the last 4 years we've seen a team come to our home ground, dogged and organised, we can't break them down...the end.

The amount of times we leave the man on the ball isolated, players laying the ball off and just standing there nobody overlaps, nobody overloads the wide areas.

And that's not even getting into how atrocious we are without the ball. You won't see another top club out there with a team who are as passive and easy to play through as we are. With supposedly two "defensive" midfielders on the £#%&!ing pitch as well. Maybe it might be an idea that you'd like to start winning possession higher up the pitch because when you're constantly having to build attacks from your own 18 yard box with defenders who can't pass very well and two central midfielders who are average, sideways-passing,creative vacuums, you're making your own problems.



This 100% this. The amount of £#%&!ing suicide passes we played to each other yesterday. Just smacked of people 'getting rid' of the ball and passing responsibility on to the next one

The options for the player on the ball was especially bad yesterday.

There was a moment second half where Matic raced (by his standards) to keep the ball in near the left hand corner flag. He did so, shielded the ball and not a single red shirt appeared to help him out.

We constantly leave AWB isolated, knowing full well he’s crap. There should ALWAYS be a player ten yards to his left.

The players bring the ball out are crap, but the midfielders so rarely show to give them a simple out ball.

And our decision making on the ball is appalling. The amount of times they ignore balls that are on, or attempt balls that aren’t is infuriating.

here is what i hope Ole does for our next match in the CL and in the League

DeGea, AWB, Axel, Maguire, Telles, McT, Donny, Bruno, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood

Give this XI a run of games and see how the £#%&! they perform because something was missing against Arsenal after beating the dog piss out of Leipzig in mid week.

Originally Posted by bosskeano

here is what i hope Ole does for our next match in the CL and in the League

DeGea, AWB, Axel, Maguire, Telles, McT, Donny, Bruno, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood

Give this XI a run of games and see how the £#%&! they perform because something was missing against Arsenal after beating the dog piss out of Leipzig in mid week.

Scrapping the diamond pal?

Personally I’d go for 3/5 at the back

When is Martial’s suspension over?

Originally Posted by AK14

Scrapping the diamond pal?

Personally I’d go for 3/5 at the back

When is Martial’s suspension over?

Back next game.