*OFFICIAL* Match Thread -Manchester united v Arsenal 9/3/15

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

what absolute bullshit?

If all these players were useless under fergie, how did we keep racking up the wins? Were we getting gifted the wins by opposition teams like RAWK melons always suggest?

Did you actually watch any football in Fergie's last two years or just check the results on Sunday? If so, did you understand any of it? You can either be a person who says we won the league by 11 points so therefore everyone involved were, by definition, good enough, or you can actually analyze the games themselves, how poor we were at times, and how many times we rescued points from losing/drawing positions.

Valencia, Young, Evans, Smalling, Jones, and the players who have already been moved on. Each played a part here or there, but I know of no one who seriously suggests we won titles because of these players. Each taken on their individual merits and deficiencies, rather than as some blanket assessment of the squad on which they leaned heavily, are found to be wanting. Badly.

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

what absolute bullshit?

If all these players were useless under fergie, how did we keep racking up the wins? Were we getting gifted the wins by opposition teams like RAWK melons always suggest?

rvp.nft.

Originally Posted by plopborsky

rvp.nft.

the same RVP that lvg can't get to perform?

Originally Posted by utd99

Did you actually watch any football in Fergie's last two years or just check the results on Sunday? If so, did you understand any of it? You can either be a person who says we won the league by 11 points so therefore everyone involved were, by definition, good enough, or you can actually analyze the games themselves, how poor we were at times, and how many times we rescued points from losing/drawing positions.

Valencia, Young, Evans, Smalling, Jones, and the players who have already been moved on. Each played a part here or there, but I know of no one who seriously suggests we won titles because of these players. Each taken on their individual merits and deficiencies, rather than as some blanket assessment of the squad on which they leaned heavily, are found to be wanting. Badly.

See that's the problem. None of these players collectively performed this bad. Yeah they had one or two moments and we know they aren't good enough for united but they all shouldn't be playing this bad all the time and at the same time! There's only one man to blame when every single player is underperforming...

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

the same RVP that lvg can't get to perform?



See that's the problem. None of these players collectively performed this bad. Yeah they had one or two moments and we know they aren't good enough for united but they all shouldn't be playing this bad all the time and at the same time! There's only one man to blame when every single player is underperforming...

he is two years older towards the end of his career after another season of injuries under moyes but carry on

Originally Posted by utd99

Did you actually watch any football in Fergie's last two years or just check the results on Sunday? If so, did you understand any of it? You can either be a person who says we won the league by 11 points so therefore everyone involved were, by definition, good enough, or you can actually analyze the games themselves, how poor we were at times, and how many times we rescued points from losing/drawing positions.

Valencia, Young, Evans, Smalling, Jones, and the players who have already been moved on. Each played a part here or there, but I know of no one who seriously suggests we won titles because of these players. Each taken on their individual merits and deficiencies, rather than as some blanket assessment of the squad on which they leaned heavily, are found to be wanting. Badly.

er, we won the league by 11 points

compare that to what we have seen since....jesus £#%&!ing christ

Originally Posted by angrydimaria

See that's the problem. None of these players collectively performed this bad. Yeah they had one or two moments and we know they aren't good enough for united but they all shouldn't be playing this bad all the time and at the same time! There's only one man to blame when every single player is underperforming...

Ok, let's simplify this then. We'll take Arsenal's winning goal as an example.

If you can tell me how Van Gaal's coaching or philosophy, whatever you want to call it, caused Phil Jones to attempt to chest down a long punted ball in a tight group of players instead of heading it clear as Vidic would have, or Valencia's inability to connect with a ten yard pass under pressure, or Smallings decision not to even start running back until Welbeck had nicked the ball past De Gea when it was too late, then I will concede you are correct and I am wrong.

This is only one example. The list is endless, and it would be happening under Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp or Ancelotti also, because these are poor players, and poor players play poorly. It's what they do.

Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC

er, we won the league by 11 points

compare that to what we have seen since....jesus £#%&!ing christ

The point is tho Kev, we didn't win the league by eleven points because of any of the players we are discussing. We won it in spite of them. For Van Gaal to be judged correctly, and don't get me wrong it may not work out, these players have to go.

Originally Posted by utd99

Ok, let's simplify this then. We'll take Arsenal's winning goal as an example.

If you can tell me how Van Gaal's coaching or philosophy, whatever you want to call it, caused Phil Jones to attempt to chest down a long punted ball in a tight group of players instead of heading it clear as Vidic would have, or Valencia's inability to connect with a ten yard pass under pressure, or Smallings decision not to even start running back until Welbeck had nicked the ball past De Gea when it was too late, then I will concede you are correct and I am wrong.

This is only one example. The list is endless, and it would be happening under Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp or Ancelotti also, because these are poor players, and poor players play poorly. It's what they do.



The point is tho Kev, we didn't win the league by eleven points because of any of the players we are discussing. We won it in spite of them. For Van Gaal to be judged correctly, and don't get me wrong it may not work out, these players have to go.

agreed re Young, Smalling, Valencia, Evans (although he wasn't as shit then_ and possibly Jones but there are still a few in the current team who were there in 2013 who shouldn't go, not many granted but not all of the current team has to be shipped out

Originally Posted by utd99

Ok, let's simplify this then. We'll take Arsenal's winning goal as an example.

If you can tell me how Van Gaal's coaching or philosophy, whatever you want to call it, caused Phil Jones to attempt to chest down a long punted ball in a tight group of players instead of heading it clear as Vidic would have, or Valencia's inability to connect with a ten yard pass under pressure, or Smallings decision not to even start running back until Welbeck had nicked the ball past De Gea when it was too late, then I will concede you are correct and I am wrong.

This is only one example. The list is endless, and it would be happening under Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp or Ancelotti also, because these are poor players, and poor players play poorly. It's what they do.



The point is tho Kev, we didn't win the league by eleven points because of any of the players we are discussing. We won it in spite of them. For Van Gaal to be judged correctly, and don't get me wrong it may not work out, these players have to go.

We mainly won it because of Van Persie, Carrick, Ferdinand, Dave and Rooneh. Now Van Persie's aged badly, so has Carrick who's missed a lot of football this year, Ferdinand has rightly been moved on as he can barely walk these days (though I wish he'd left on better terms), and Dave is magnificent but he's being tapped up by Real Madrid.

Then there's Rooney, well Rooney is both the best and worst of United, he's a competitor through and through and a real team player, but he's hot-headed, doesn't look after himself, wildly inconsistent and been shuffled around to plug gaps elsewhere (not least during that title season).

Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC

agreed re Young, Smalling, Valencia, Evans (although he wasn't as shit then_ and possibly Jones but there are still a few in the current team who were there in 2013 who shouldn't go, not many granted but not all of the current team has to be shipped out

There's a massive difference doing a job when you are playing next to Vidic or Rio telling you what to do the whole game, than stepping up and being the man yourself. These players have been found out huge, and my point is merely that Van Gaal is carrying the can for them simply because he has no one else he can play there unless he wants youth teamers playing in huge matches at the fat end of the season. If these @#%&!s didn't do what they did, we would be looking at a semi against Reading and the whole story is different.

Originally Posted by utd99

T If these @#%&!s didn't do what they did, we would be looking at a semi against Reading and the whole story is different.

yep they were too blame

but so too were Di Maria Blind and FEllaini

Di maria had a great chance at 1-1 just before Wel£#%&! scored......might have been so different if he had

Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC

yep they were too blame

but so too were Di Maria Blind and FEllaini

Di maria had a great chance at 1-1 just before Wel£#%&! scored......might have been so different if he had

Right, which is why we have to differentiate between the unknown and the known. Who knows how Di Maria will pan out long term? Or even Blind for that matter. But we have been watching the others, Valencia, Evans, Jones, Smalling, Young, even Rafa for long enough now that we know they are not good enough. It was known before Van Gaal got here and it's known now. I just don't think he should be judged on the mistakes they make. He didn't buy them and he has no real choice but to play them in some capacity.

Only when the final tally is in, and it transpires that we lost four of our most influencial players of the last decade, and had to bin fifteen or sixteen more for simply not being good enough, will the real enormity of the job Van Gaal has taken on be evident. To sack him after one year in those circumstances would be a huge mistake. It will also indicate to whoever we go after next that, at United, you get nine months to get it right or you're out.

Originally Posted by utd99

Only when the final tally is in, and it transpires that we lost four of our most influencial players of the last decade, and had to bin fifteen or sixteen more for simply not being good enough, will the real enormity of the job Van Gaal has taken on be evident. To sack him after one year in those circumstances would be a huge mistake. It will also indicate to whoever we go after next that, at United, you get nine months to get it right or you're out.

very good points which is why LVG should be given five years to sort it not three, but I think he will do it in three

Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC

very good points which is why LVG should be given five years to sort it not three, but I think he will do it in three

Hopefully our support has that much patience. Worryingly, plenty on here are already writing him off.

Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC

Evans (although he wasn't as shit then.....

evans has always been shit. some people took longer than others to realise this.

Originally Posted by utd99

Right, which is why we have to differentiate between the unknown and the known. Who knows how Di Maria will pan out long term? Or even Blind for that matter. But we have been watching the others, Valencia, Evans, Jones, Smalling, Young, even Rafa for long enough now that we know they are not good enough. It was known before Van Gaal got here and it's known now. I just don't think he should be judged on the mistakes they make. He didn't buy them and he has no real choice but to play them in some capacity.

Only when the final tally is in, and it transpires that we lost four of our most influencial players of the last decade, and had to bin fifteen or sixteen more for simply not being good enough, will the real enormity of the job Van Gaal has taken on be evident. To sack him after one year in those circumstances would be a huge mistake. It will also indicate to whoever we go after next that, at United, you get nine months to get it right or you're out.

excellent post.

Don't need to see any more of Blind to know he's an excellent footballer. His 'misplaced' passes are often when the player hasn't moved into the space he's passed it into to e.g. Smalling.

Originally Posted by redhegemony

Don't need to see any more of Blind to know he's an excellent footballer. His 'misplaced' passes are often when the player hasn't moved into the space he's passed it into to e.g. Smalling.

He's a good passer sure, classy on the ball but struggling for pace and physicality in this league. Good at what he does but he doesn't really solve our problems in central midfield. Which isn't his fault, but that's life.

Originally Posted by andyroo

He's a good passer sure, classy on the ball but struggling for pace and physicality in this league. Good at what he does but he doesn't really solve our problems in central midfield. Which isn't his fault, but that's life.

I like him, but I'm not sure of his best position (still think Carrick is better at that role), he's got slow feet and loves dropping a crossfield ball short.