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Unread 20-08-2014, 08:57 PM
92ToBury
 
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The PIKs won't kill us in 2017. The balance of the 2010 bond issue will - whatever percentage of the 500m issue that the Glazers haven't bought. Either way, they win. The more bonds they buy on the quiet then the more the club has to pay back to them officially. Then they can run another bond issue to cover any remaining debt and rinse and repeat as required and as per financial markets dictate.
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:00 PM
denis lawless
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
were they wrong about the lack of investment, death by a thousand cuts and bumping along suboptimally while the c**ts trouser your money?

scaremongers, eh? giving cassandra a bad name.
it was the f***ing banksters who facilitated these bastards in taking over the club.....JP Morons wasnt it ?
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:05 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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were they wrong about 5 titles in the last 8 years? yes.

were they wrong about United still being champions by 2013? yes.

were they wrong about the vast sums that would continue to flow and increase massively via media and sponsorship? yes, they were f***ing miles away.

were they wrong about the value of the club and continue to be so? yes, they were f***ing miles out.

capitalist scum have made hundreds of millions between them off the back of the last decade at United. if they want to continue to do so, regardless of who the front of the operation is, then they will continue to throw money at the club in inflated transfer fees and inflated wages.
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:12 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92ToBury
The PIKs won't kill us in 2017. The balance of the 2010 bond issue will - whatever percentage of the 500m issue that the Glazers haven't bought. Either way, they win. The more bonds they buy on the quiet then the more the club has to pay back to them officially. Then they can run another bond issue to cover any remaining debt and rinse and repeat as required and as per financial markets dictate.
ffs
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:15 PM
HERTS_RED
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
were they wrong about 5 titles in the last 8 years? yes.

were they wrong about United still being champions by 2013? yes.

were they wrong about the vast sums that would continue to flow and increase massively via media and sponsorship? yes, they were f***ing miles away.

were they wrong about the value of the club and continue to be so? yes, they were f***ing miles out.

capitalist scum have made hundreds of millions between them off the back of the last decade at United. if they want to continue to do so, regardless of who the front of the operation is, then they will continue to throw money at the club in inflated transfer fees and inflated wages.
Not sure what you're trying to say there, for a change

The Glazers have now hit a perfect storm where fixed income each year far exceeds what they probably envisaged when they took over

Sky, Chevrolet and Adidas alone probably beats total income from when they took over, wages for "star" players have gone through the roof but for the average squad player it hasn't changed much

I'm guessing their aim is towards the american model with 2-3 stars and the rest fillers, hope for the odd title/fa cup/cl final and keep the brand alive

*edit* 92bury is correct there's still a huge black hole lurking -
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:18 PM
92ToBury
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
ffs
I know it won't kill us but expect some stupid chicanery around that time to present the books in a far better light than they actually would be, like the insistence of the whole Ronaldo fee up front last time.
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:27 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HERTS_RED
Not sure what you're trying to say there, for a change

The Glazers have now hit a perfect storm where fixed income each year far exceeds what they probably envisaged when they took over

Sky, Chevrolet and Adidas alone probably beats total income from when they took over, wages for "star" players have gone through the roof but for the average squad player it hasn't changed much

I'm guessing their aim is towards the american model with 2-3 stars and the rest fillers, hope for the odd title/fa cup/cl final and keep the brand alive

*edit* 92bury is correct there's still a huge black hole lurking -
I think their aim is to hire a manager and then just turn up as and when to admire the league title in the OT trophy room without having to even know how it was won

As far as the money in football is concerned, especially through television and sponsorship, I doubt they're very surprised either at the vast increases or the ratio United has taken relative to everyone else. It was clearly mapped out from where I was looking a decade ago and I've been arguing as much on here and in the other place before that. They've tapped into it very well, and are, along with the sugar-daddies, the various footballing associations, and the media the epitomy of everything that is wrong with the sport.
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:31 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92ToBury
I know it won't kill us but expect some stupid chicanery around that time to present the books in a far better light than they actually would be, like the insistence of the whole Ronaldo fee up front last time.
agreed. chicanery as a double bluff with these types of capitalist scum though. they'll milk it as long as they want to; United as an institution and as a club is not and will not be risked by the process imo
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:38 PM
RedMenace
 
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Was just having a look at the accounts, as far as I can see the outstanding borrowings are around 377m but I may be missing something. I'd imagine they can refinance that without a lot of difficulty before the bonds are due to be repaid. If that's what they want to do.
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:38 PM
HERTS_RED
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
I think their aim is to hire a manager and then just turn up as and when to admire the league title in the OT trophy room without having to even know how it was won

As far as the money in football is concerned, especially through television and sponsorship, I doubt they're very surprised either at the vast increases or the ratio United has taken relative to everyone else. It was clearly mapped out from where I was looking a decade ago and I've been arguing as much on here and in the other place before that. They've tapped into it very well, and are, along with the sugar-daddies, the various footballing associations, and the media the epitomy of everything that is wrong with the sport.
The money coming in is a sheer fluke, Sky never had a serious challenger in 2005 nor did they till BT started throwing stupid money at the CL (Setanta and ESPN fell by the wayside) which will make the next TV deal of the charts, the last one was 3bn the next one will probably be 5bn

Besides all that people started investing in premier league clubs due to internet rights, as that is the golden goose, being able to sell individual matches to overseas fans at 5.99 a go is where the real money is
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:43 PM
92ToBury
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HERTS_RED
The money coming in is a sheer fluke, Sky never had a serious challenger in 2005 nor did they till BT started throwing stupid money at the CL (Setanta and ESPN fell by the wayside) which will make the next TV deal of the charts, the last one was 3bn the next one will probably be 5bn

Besides all that people started investing in premier league clubs due to internet rights, as that is the golden goose, being able to sell individual matches to overseas fans at 5.99 a go is where the real money is
Looks like their ultimate dream is fading though, with Spanish football set to revert to collective tv rights.
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:45 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HERTS_RED
The money coming in is a sheer fluke, Sky never had a serious challenger in 2005 nor did they till BT started throwing stupid money at the CL (Setanta and ESPN fell by the wayside) which will make the next TV deal of the charts, the last one was 3bn the next one will probably be 5bn

Besides all that people started investing in premier league clubs due to internet rights, as that is the golden goose, being able to sell individual matches to overseas fans at 5.99 a go is where the real money is
It was as predictable as it is ridiculous. Money to money. It was only a matter of time before Sky's monopoly was broken and the price went through the roof. Like you say, there is still plenty of untapped mileage in the TV market yet as well
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:48 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92ToBury
Looks like their ultimate dream is fading though, with Spanish football set to revert to collective tv rights.
there will still be a market for club specific live matchday coverage, and a huge scramble to ensure the slant of that coverage - 100 a month for MUTV anyone?
 
Unread 20-08-2014, 09:48 PM
HERTS_RED
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92ToBury
Looks like their ultimate dream is fading though, with Spanish football set to revert to collective tv rights.
Collective is for the good of any league, though everyone loves to watch an El Classico the rest of the matches probably pull less viewing figures than Stoke v Sunderland

Internet rights from a point of law (i think, will check) would be outside any agreement
 
Unread 21-08-2014, 06:47 AM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denis lawless
it was the f***ing banksters who facilitated these bastards in taking over the club.....JP Morons wasnt it ?
it was a syndicate of banks. which is why the fight to stop the takeover should have targeted banks. and not with pizza deliveries.

the glazers have, predictably, made a lot of money out of united. it's not my definition of success.
 
Unread 21-08-2014, 12:21 PM
dodger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
f***s sake. We are f***ed.

Who the f*** is going to buy us valued at 3bn, still 500m in debt with a mid table squad requiring several hundred million of investment anyway

Venture capitalists via another leveraged buy-out. Just like they would if they were buying the RAC or my current employers. Or even Ms.Dodgers emplyers, who were previously a non-profit organisation who provided a brillaint and important service, paid staff well and ploughed the rest back into the firm. It seems that's not the right way to do things though. :shakehead:
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